Meditating and enjoying life.The same or different

This is a continuation of my thread on why meditate. I was walking our dogs over the weekend. It was a beautiful morning. I was appreciating the trees, the clouds, the pond, everything around me. Then, I decided to switch to 4 foundations noting. All the joy went away. I do get a meta-peace when doing vipassana and just sitting meditation and joy when doing samatha meditation. Can we have it both ways, being embedded in the joy of a beautiful morning and and reaching a meta-peace by not being embedded by taking meditation into the rest of our life? Intellectually I can come up with several yes answers. But, experientially it’s not working out that way.

I watched a YouTube video with a panel discussing non-duality: . Gary Weber was doing his I'm not attached to anything bit. Tim Freke took the opposite approach saying having a child changed him. He wants to taste the juice of life, being fully in the full catastrophe life. I’m with Tim. But, I’m also with Gary.

A question for all 4th path and above. When faced with a “bad” situation, say someone close to you dying, loss of a job, bad news from a medical test, and so on, are you able to be OK with it? That is, feeling the sorrow, the stress, the suffering but having a meta-peace with it?

I think that the key is in not defining how "being with" difficult circumstances has to look or feel: Thrinley Norbu Rinpoche speaks of "reasonable unshakeable faith." That seems to me to be a more fitting description than "meta peace"-- because there can be all kinds of roiling stuff in the circumstances and in thoughts and feelings. Like shooting white water in a kayak and staying upright: may not look calm and serene! But, still-- upright and still moving, after all. There is a certain subtle and inexplicable enjoyment in registering this, too.

That's sort of interesting. Maybe switching from just enjoying the moment to "meditating" felt like turning the moment into a project, or having a job to do, and brought with it the associations one often has with work, such as performance anxiety, deadlines, and such things? Can a person relate to meditation as a fun pasttime, rather than a project? Interesting to ponder maybe. I don't know, and the answer is probably very variable for each individual.

Sometimes we get tired of things, too, and it's not bad to move on to something new. Other times our disinclination to do something is a good pointer towards exploring why we want it to be different, what we are dissatisfied with, etc.

No idea on the latter part of your question, about Gary vs. Tim. I suspect people's views, experiences, interpretations, etc vary wildly, whether they are "awake" or not.

It may also be true that different traditions, and hence techniques, have different approaches to the question of the role/relationship between happiness and awakening. Theravada e.g., which is basically world-transcending in approach, often sees equanimity as more valuable than happiness, and that can make sense inasmuch as a lot of what people often experience as happiness is actually excitedness (having said that joy, bliss etc have important roles in various Theravada paths and in the suttas).

And the other complication is whether the tradition sees pleasurable experiences, or particular kinds of pleasurable experiences, as tending toward attachment and addiction.

And of course there's the question of applying different techniques at different times or according to different personality types, etc, to be taken into account when thinking about whether there is an effect of a particular practice that you like or don't like (I think the modernist traditions like Mahasi which tend to 'crown' one technique often really miss this).

This is a great talk by adyashanti that really talks about the whole range of meditation and awakening and different orientations to life and living... no bullshit good stuff. I mean, I feel >lucky< to have just listened to it. It's that good.

I usually can't be bothered to listen to hour-long videos, but I just listened to the first half of that talk while having breakfast, and he just nails it. That video is loaded with gold, much of it relevant to the topic here.

Thank you shargrol for posting that. I have listened to 45 minutes so far. Favorite line: (and relevant to this topic)

"It always really was just walking down the street"

Great video by Adjya. Thanks Shargrol. The walking down the street quote was very meaningful to me also.

Interesting that Adjya had a long, intense background in meditation but doesn't teach meditation now but uses other methods.

When did Adya's retreats stop including meditation? He used to have a roving teaching practice around the San Francisco Bay Area, and all the meetings began with a half hour or 45 minutes of silent meditation. This was back in the early 'aughties,' so my experience may be out of date.

He advocates the most difficult/easy mediation practice of all, basically just sitting... along with inquiry and contemplation.

His most recent (free) eBook THE WAY OF LIBERATION
www.adyashanti.org/wayofliberation/

I heard a talk of his where he said he was giving up teaching meditation. I think that he doesn't count just sitting as meditation. It is similar to his just walking down the street comment. In one of his latest books, the intro does mention that his retreats still contain some silent meditation periods.

every3rdthought wrote: It may also be true that different traditions, and hence techniques, have different approaches to the question of the role/relationship between happiness and awakening. Theravada e.g., which is basically world-transcending in approach, often sees equanimity as more valuable than happiness, and that can make sense inasmuch as a lot of what people often experience as happiness is actually excitedness (having said that joy, bliss etc have important roles in various Theravada paths and in the suttas).

The Dalai Lama and Thich Nhat Hanh both say happiness is the end goal of all living beings. I think happiness can be defined in several different ways. I would include equanimity and peacefulness in my definition of happiness as well as the rest of the Brahmaviharas.

For anyone interested. here are three guided meditations by Adya: . Here is a 8-10 minute video by Shinzen Young on do nothing meditation: .

For the last several years I have tried to have one effortful meditation (4 foundations noting with and without labeling) a day and one non-dual/do nothing/just sitting effortless meditation a day. The 4 foundations meditation does seem to be effortless at times but it is appears my unconscious is doing the work not my consciousness.