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TOPIC: Insight Disease Vs The Joy Of Exploration

Insight Disease Vs The Joy Of Exploration 20 Oct 2016 11:03 #104670

Trying to avoid clogging Phillips thread. On the subject of mapping and progress, I wanted to say that one can be free of insight disease and still want more spiritual development. As Daniel said in his BATGAP interview, "it's the coolest video game ever." At this point, I probably would not be diagnosable with insight disease. If I stopped practicing tomorrow, my current level would be acceptable to me. But I gain such joy from transformational practice! I suspect many others do too. For these reasons, I respectfully disagree that mapping is a crutch, and that a sense of doneness is the primary measure of attainment. Clarity, openness, and radical acceptance can arise simultaneously with the thrill of adventure deeper into ones being. And it is definitely not true that the deepest levels aren't mappable. I can think of one culture that was isolated for a millennia on a mountain plateau, giving them a chance to systematize this stuff.
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Insight Disease Vs The Joy Of Exploration 20 Oct 2016 12:22 #104671

I hope the progress of insight just works, that *time* spent doing *appropriate* practice is all it takes for progress to occur. That said:

Over the last week I've had some mild insecurity about my practice floating in and out, I was thinking that I'm not really aware of my map location, so how do I know how to practice? Do fruitions change depending on where I am? Does the practice method for the 'right' fruition change? Can I get addicted to 'low level' fruitions and will that slow my progress? Then I had some snappy/blanky events, not really like other 'cessations', but it made me think cessation. I noticed later in the day I felt better, I'd seen some kind of thing that wasn't just vaguely focused insight, I was making progress! I found myself wondering, is that satisfied feeling just what follows a week of mild dissatisfaction, like a seesaw or a pendulum, that 'up' naturally follows 'down'? Or, if someone had just convinced me to sit with no expectation or awareness of anything, would I have the same experience of odd cessation, then a rebound satisfaction?

My working assumption is that it's all good. Yes, maps can cause expectations to happen, expectations are a natural process and they have consequences. And that can be OK if it gets me to do deliberate, appropriate practice as opposed to random fretting about life. And expectations can be a hindrance until I gain awareness of that process so that it's not an automatic thing that causes me to think at the expense of awareness of what is happening.

So far I've mostly been relying on other people that know maps better than I probably ever will. So I'm depending on other people to help me feel like I'm doing the right thing. Sometimes that is enough, sometimes I feel insecure about that. Seems like just more stuff to be aware of, which is the whole game. Danial mentioned finding little things here or there that had been unexamined till then. I get that.

I feel I've contributed a wishy-washy tub of half clean clothes. :)
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Insight Disease Vs The Joy Of Exploration 20 Oct 2016 12:52 #104672

I didn't want to clog up Philips thread either. I just want to say here:

I like maps.

:)
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Insight Disease Vs The Joy Of Exploration 20 Oct 2016 13:17 #104673

Thanks Matthew. Intentionality and imagination are wonderful tools. A deeper part of your mind knows what to do, what to explore next, etc.
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Insight Disease Vs The Joy Of Exploration 20 Oct 2016 13:35 #104674

Noah wrote:
want more spiritual development

What does that mean?
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Insight Disease Vs The Joy Of Exploration 20 Oct 2016 14:33 #104676

It means having fun exploring different axis of transformation. Getting excited about goals and then meeting them. All the while balancing effort with reverie, wonder and surrender to whatever arises. Specifically, for me it has meant learning a form of Thai Buddhism that involves habit formation and life skills, attitude change, emotional regulation, etc. The result of all this was a shift into deeper nondual perception which was an obvious add on to what I had learned from Ron in a very different context.
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Insight Disease Vs The Joy Of Exploration 20 Oct 2016 16:29 #104680

Noah wrote:
It means having fun exploring different axis of transformation. Getting excited about goals and then meeting them. All the while balancing effort with reverie, wonder and surrender to whatever arises. Specifically, for me it has meant learning a form of Thai Buddhism that involves habit formation and life skills, attitude change, emotional regulation, etc. The result of all this was a shift into deeper nondual perception which was an obvious add on to what I had learned from Ron in a very different context.

I'm feeling confused here. For me, this begs the question: What did the fun and exploration and shifting into deeper nondual perception provide for you that staying at your current level didn't?
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Insight Disease Vs The Joy Of Exploration 20 Oct 2016 16:45 #104681

Andy wrote:
Noah wrote:
It means having fun exploring different axis of transformation. Getting excited about goals and then meeting them. All the while balancing effort with reverie, wonder and surrender to whatever arises. Specifically, for me it has meant learning a form of Thai Buddhism that involves habit formation and life skills, attitude change, emotional regulation, etc. The result of all this was a shift into deeper nondual perception which was an obvious add on to what I had learned from Ron in a very different context.

I'm feeling confused here. For me, this begs the question: What did the fun and exploration and shifting into deeper nondual perception provide for you that staying at your current level didn't?

One answer would be that it's made me better at helping myself and others.

Edit: Specifics would be forgiving myself and others more quickly, feeling joy pervasively and wanting to spread in my interactions with others. Decreasing hostility and negative impressions, more material generosity.
Last Edit: 20 Oct 2016 16:49 by Noah.
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Insight Disease Vs The Joy Of Exploration 20 Oct 2016 16:53 #104682

But I see the point your making. From the ultimate standpoint, nothing changed of course.
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Insight Disease Vs The Joy Of Exploration 20 Oct 2016 18:58 #104683

I think I've pretty much put my perspective on maps. I would say a couple of other things:

Insight disease and wanting more development for sure are different things - the phrase/concept 'insight disease,' at least to me, has an intensity and a sense of being the only important thing in one's life which doesn't necessarily apply to any and all desire for transformation. But the very phrase 'wanting more' which Noah, you use above, suggests a fundamental dissatisfaction. THAT, to me, becomes the primary place that needs to be looked at. What more could there ever be? But paradoxically, we can't use willpower to surrender. If there's no feeling of doneness, it's not done.

What I would add though is that the 'doneness' or 'completeness' I and others have mentioned doesn't mean that no further 'development' happens - on the contrary. Personally I have all kinds of areas of my life that I'm working on, mostly to do with my interactions with other people (either in action, or in my head). I can see that I am not the person I would be/God would have me be when I am being judgmental, or hostile, or greedy, or whatever it may be. I recognise, though, that this 'brokenness' and imperfection is also fundamentally human - that the way I am and that everything in the world is, is exactly as it should be right now - and that working on this stuff is a project which will not be concluded in a lifetime - and that change actually happening, and even having the desire to change, is entirely outside of my control, even while it seems that I am deciding and acting.
Last Edit: 20 Oct 2016 19:44 by every3rdthought.
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Insight Disease Vs The Joy Of Exploration 20 Oct 2016 19:55 #104684

"Want more" is a reflection of sloppy word choice, not me clinging for dear life or craving for a klondike bar. I want deeper awakening like I want to travel to other countries, meet interesting new people, hike in the wilderness, or marvel at a piece of art. My intention or meaning is deeper participation. Maps help guide this joyful exploration.
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Insight Disease Vs The Joy Of Exploration 20 Oct 2016 20:28 #104685

Yup. It's okay to live.
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