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TOPIC: Lets get clear about Final Awakening

Lets get clear about Final Awakening 13 Aug 2018 22:30 #109622

Ok, im comparing the state of knowing truth with all the moments where I can't see it anymore. I'd rather just see it all the time. I could benefit from more practice, but more practice just seems to result in the same thing: awakening when I'm awake then grokking away till I'm awake again This is coupled with the fact that post-awakening has a sleeping quality to it, killed my motivation, but more work to be done.

As it happens, I havn't thought about this as much in the past few years. Starting this thread is causing me to push through to what I know to be true. I'm glad for that. Is it the way to go for everyone? Take a hard look and keep questioning everything? Perhaps this is what we need to do. The un-fun part of the practice that slows us down. Question everything.

Much appreciation Shargrol!
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 13 Aug 2018 22:31 #109623

shargrol wrote:
Or at least it was for me.

Give us a summary. It helps
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 13 Aug 2018 22:37 #109624

(Summary is up above.)

What is "it" that you see and then don't see?
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 13 Aug 2018 22:57 #109625

shargrol wrote:
(Summary is up above.)

What is "it" that you see and then don't see?

I have seen the luminescent quality of mind where all is well, nothing to be done, nothing to progress towards. Yet, this is not my baseline-everyday experience. Only during a retreat. Thus, i think it is natural at least to desire this to be the normal state of seeing. Why just be awakened during retreat? The "it" that I see is Truth. "This is it, this is all there is, and it is perfect" but then it doesn't last. Then, I have to practice hard or go on retreat to see it again. Something seems wrong in this.
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 14 Aug 2018 04:04 #109626

Okay, what specifically makes this moment seem non-luminous? Descriptively, what is the actual problem in this moment? And why can't you do what you do on cushion while you are off cushion?

I have to say, I'm starting to get the sense that something isn't quite right in your story. What's going on? How is your daily practice and what are your plans for your next retreat? I ask this in the same spirit of honest questioning that you are asking of everyone else.

Do you think that there is some trick to awakening? It's mostly just a lot of sitting time and a lot of introspection. The results that happen is a kind of basic sanity, nothing fancy. Sure, there is a lot of enlightenment porn that talks about all the cool and wild things that can happen, but at the end of the day, it's just basic mental health. Basic sanity.

And to get there, you deal with the resistances and clinging that shows up during your practice, one step leads to the other, and then eventually you see the actual nature of resistances and clinging and you are awake to your own mind. That's about it. But every step of the way should lead to a greater sense of being grounded, of better self-understanding. If that's not happening, then there is some resistance or compulsion/clinging that is being overlooked.

So, when I'm asking these questions, I'm not trying to be tricky. I'm actually trying to figure out what practice might be most helpful for you.
Last Edit: 14 Aug 2018 04:16 by shargrol.
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 14 Aug 2018 07:57 #109627

I have seen the luminescent quality of mind where all is well, nothing to be done, nothing to progress towards.

Anthony, can you describe this luminescent quality in detail? I've experienced a giddy, almost "high" sort of feeling immediately after certain events but that never lasts. It always fades and I'm left with just my moment to moment experience. But that experience is not "different" in the way your comment seems to suggest. Are you looking for a different kind of experience?
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 14 Aug 2018 08:45 #109628

I had a Skype session with Abre the other day. I began by updating her on how things are going. I was rocking in my rocking chair, telling her some story or another, until she asked me to stop moving, and then provided me with a pointer: “How is this being feeling right now?” The agitation, which I hadn’t even been aware of, dropped away. Self dropped away.

I think a lot of practice at this stage may have to do with pointers. Her pointer is somewhat similar to the Actual Freedom mantra of “How am I experiencing this moment of being alive?” Except for the fact that there is an “I” in the HAIETMOBA pointer and none in Abre’s. In any case, I get the impression that people do a variety of things, but the kind of insight practice that got us wherever we are isn’t going to be the way forward.

Even some of the jhana instructions could use a tweaking. A narrow focus on the nostrils gave me headaches when I did the practice for long hours on retreat, but a more expansive focus, taking in the periphery, worked much more easily and without the pain. The biggest challenge is restoring my concentration, which took a beating over the years without regular practice. Old habits of self-identification have crept back in, and pursuing distractions from unpleasantness or boredom has been a trap for me. The more gentle, focused practices, in my case with a medium or wide focus (choiceless awareness), are better for me at this point.

People seem to try a variety of directions. Daniel Thorson, whom I follow on Twitter, has been utterly transformed and inspired by Rob Burbea’s recent teachings. On this thread, Noah has enumerated a number of things he has worked with. In any case, we each need to figure out what works for us. Try not to drown in frustration when that luminosity is not manifesting and just gently return to your pointer, periodically. See how it goes.
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 14 Aug 2018 08:59 #109629

Another thought: I think the ego is predisposed to resist surrendering for all of us, and so the various levels of fallout people are describing here are part of the back-and-forth process of holding back—letting go. Take a look at this thread:

www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/me...ards/message/9141409
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 14 Aug 2018 09:08 #109630

I want to pose an alternative to the idea that practice must change post-awakening:

In my experience, the same practices that I did before are useful to me now. I think it may be a sidetrack to think otherwise. If you are unfocused and find it hard to concentrate them concentration practice will help. If you are struggling to be able to see the interplay of your senses and mind then a noting or investigation practice will help.

We seem to naturally rotate our desired practices to a different kind of practice post-awakening. I know I did - and it was helpful and still is. But I find the same old practices that worked before also work after. I think it just depends on what we need at any given time.
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 14 Aug 2018 09:36 #109631

Chris Marti wrote:
I want to pose an alternative to the idea that practice must change post-awakening:

In my experience, the same practices that I did before are useful to me now. I think it may be a sidetrack to think otherwise. If you are unfocused and find it hard to concentrate them concentration practice will help. If you are struggling to be able to see the interplay of your senses and mind then a noting or investigation practice will help.

We seem to naturally rotate our desired practices to a different kind of practice post-awakening. I know I did - and it was helpful and still is. But I find the same old practices that worked before also work after. I think it just depends on what we need at any given time.

I toyed with the idea of adding a “necessarily” to my statement above that the insight practices that got us here aren’t the way forward. I probably (or really) should have. They don’t have the same flavor for me now, however.
Last Edit: 14 Aug 2018 09:36 by Laurel Carrington.
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 14 Aug 2018 09:43 #109633

I don't know what "flavor" means in the context of this conversation. Can you elaborate, Laurel?
Last Edit: 14 Aug 2018 09:43 by Chris Marti.
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 14 Aug 2018 10:29 #109634

Before, I was very much aware that i was working myself up the Progress of Insight path, from one stage to the next, aiming at getting that next milestone. Now the rationale is missing, and I’ll do something like noting to counteract the effects of a busy mind by giving it something to do other than spin thoughts one after another. Of course, there were points in the path where I’d drop the noting and just watch the show (High Eq), and I would even use noting back then to get the mind to STFU, but you get the idea.
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 14 Aug 2018 10:33 #109635

Courtesy of Soh Wei Yu, whom I am fortunate to have as a FB friend:

“No Longer Finding Self in Identity

From Adyashanti's Omega Institute Retreat, September 25, 2017.

I've been asked many times, “Adya, I'm experiencing this strange sort of fear, like I'm at the door of some void, and it's just going to swallow me. And somehow I'm strangely, deeply compelled towards it, and absolutely terrified of it, because it feels like it's going to be the end of me.” It's very common in doing this kind of deep work that you can run into this.

Ultimately, in the end, we see through self, but at that point, self isn't a thought and it's not really a feeling, except for fear. It's something you can't identify, like some sort of presence of being that feels extraordinarily threatened. When this really opens up, you quite literally experience the disappearance of everything you know. It seems like the body, the mind, the entire world -- all of existence blinks out of existence.

In a certain sense, the most real sense that there can be, you actually do go through a death. It's not the same thing as a near-death experience -- as transformative as those can be -- it's a death experience. It's the thing we're afraid of, because you think of your body dying, which is what most people are afraid of. But you're only afraid of your body dying because you think that you are associated with the body. What is it that's associated with the body? It's you.

If you were 100% completely convinced that you survive your body dying, death wouldn't feel like a threat to you at all. But since the identification runs so deep there, any threat to your body feels like a threat to your life—as a threat to your ideas can feel like a threat to your life. If you let go here, it feels like, "I will cease to be." This is to experience the death of the entire ego identity. If it really happens all the way through, something doesn't come back from it. There is an irrevocable change or transformation. The good news is that you aren't what you feel is going to die. The only way to know that entirely is for it to die.

My hunch is that when the Buddha associated nirvana with extinction and cessation, this is what he was talking about: to yank identity up from the root. Because until then, it is the journey of identity: "I'm me" -- whatever your sense of yourself is -- "Oh, I'm not, I'm the aware space." And then you have emotional identities: "I'm this open, wide, loving, benevolent presence. That's what I am -- beautiful." Or "I am That -- everywhere I look, there I am." Or if you're a little bit differently oriented, "Everywhere I look, there's the face of God. Okay, now that is what I am. I'm a son or daughter of God."

The fear of it is that it is the death of identity, which is almost impossible to contemplate. The journey is that the identity gets more and more transparent and boundless, until finally identity itself falls away. Then the question "What is it that I am?" is no longer there—not because you have an answer, but because identity is no longer relevant.

In conventional language, you may give it a name like "the infinite." I call it "pure potentiality." There are different ways the void is talked about, and this is one of them. Pure potentiality would necessarily be void if it's pure -- no manifestation at all—pure potential, pure creative impulse.

That doesn't mean that you no longer have a personality, that you no longer have human things about you, that you no longer have a certain kind of principle that orients you—you may even call that an identity. But you no longer find self in identity, and so it's freed up.

When the Buddha says "enlightenment," one way of articulating it is that it's the freedom from identity, from having to be or not be anything. Does that mean you no longer experience the oneness, being everything, seeing the face of God, your true being, or Buddha nature in everything? No, that's still there. Things are still there, but there's no longer identity in them. I don't really know how to describe that, because the nature of it is beyond description. You can't even think about it. It's the borderline between being and nonbeing.

So this is just part of the journey: awakening at the level of mind, heart awakening to the unity of all things, and each one of these provides more spaciousness and openness. Your sense of yourself gets more and more transparent, therefore there's less to defend. There's less necessity to assert yourself in the world, which doesn't mean you are not an assertive being. You can still be a very assertive being.

How does all that translate down into your human experience? There's still a human being there. The human being hasn't started to glow and become incapable of any stupidity. It hasn't suddenly become God's shining example of utter perfection. Each dimension of being exists within its own dimension.

In my experience, what it does is it frees these dimensions up so they're no longer in conflict, and life is no longer about protecting and asserting a kind of ego structure. It's about something different. There are still other dimensions of our humanness that need attention if we want to be able to function well and have what we've realized be able to flow out into all the dimensions of what it is to be a human being.

© Adyashanti 2017”

This does represent one clear vision of awakening, one I happen to like a lot.
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 14 Aug 2018 12:50 #109636

Laurel, maybe it's just me but the practice of sitting in meditation and watching how the mind works (noting, observing, call it what you will) is still a good, viable and helpful practice if I want to increase the amount of time that I'm fully attentive to this process off the cushion. The more I do it, the more ubiquitous that view becomes. I find I can do any practice I want by inclining toward it with intent, and it can be helpful. Jhana practice has been particularly prominent for me lately but I start each mediation session with observation/investigation practice.
Last Edit: 14 Aug 2018 14:40 by Chris Marti.
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 14 Aug 2018 20:37 #109638

shargrol wrote:
Okay, what specifically makes this moment seem non-luminous? Descriptively, what is the actual problem in this moment? And why can't you do what you do on cushion while you are off cushion?

I have to say, I'm starting to get the sense that something isn't quite right in your story. What's going on? How is your daily practice and what are your plans for your next retreat? I ask this in the same spirit of honest questioning that you are asking of everyone else.

Do you think that there is some trick to awakening? It's mostly just a lot of sitting time and a lot of introspection. The results that happen is a kind of basic sanity, nothing fancy. Sure, there is a lot of enlightenment porn that talks about all the cool and wild things that can happen, but at the end of the day, it's just basic mental health. Basic sanity.

And to get there, you deal with the resistances and clinging that shows up during your practice, one step leads to the other, and then eventually you see the actual nature of resistances and clinging and you are awake to your own mind. That's about it. But every step of the way should lead to a greater sense of being grounded, of better self-understanding. If that's not happening, then there is some resistance or compulsion/clinging that is being overlooked.

So, when I'm asking these questions, I'm not trying to be tricky. I'm actually trying to figure out what practice might be most helpful for you.

Thanks, I will need to contemplate this for awhile. I don't really have a daily practice at the moment. The last I was practicing regularly I experienced what some have mentioned before, a continuation of development but without an end in site. Nothing wrong with that, but no motivation to continue rigorously either. I didn't intent to make this thread about me getting unstuck. My main goal with this topic was to stir up some conversation about the concept of a finalized awakening that is abiding. Such amazing dialogue thus far! Much to consider and experiment with for myself.

I will start a personal journal thread sometime soon to document my experience more. I think the best practice right now is what I have been doing here. Intense writing and thinking about what is true. Similar to the writing practice that Adyashanti recommends. Write down what you think is true. And keep examining it and contemplate what you really know for certain. For me this seems to strip away layers of delusion more efficiently. Its also something I can carry a notebook and do thoughout my day. When a thought causes me to go into division, I write about it and try to unravel the cause. Meditation is great, but I can get side tracked in the fun mind-states and tend to steer away from the hard contemplation.

I am not expecting awakening to be about high and mystical happy states, and not mental health either (of course both can happen as a side effect). But what do I expect final awakening to be? I need to keep stripping away what it is certainly not.
Last Edit: 14 Aug 2018 20:47 by Anthony Yeshe.
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 14 Aug 2018 22:01 #109640

One of the worst things I did after the event was to stop practicing. I regret that mistake.
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 15 Aug 2018 08:58 #109645

Anthony Yeshe wrote:

Here are some questions to start:
1) Where are you at currently and honestly tell us where your end goal is. Do you believe there is an end goal (It depends how you approach this philosophically)
2) Defend/explain your experience(s) of awakening. What is it like for you not being in this state 24/7 once having experienced it at least once? How do you know it was the real deal? This is dangerous but it can be helpful to compare notes
3) What is your definition as final awakening/enlightenment/done? How do we get there? Who has this info sufficiently spelled out?

Hi Anthony, nice to see you online again and thanks for bringing this subject up. :cheer: It has kept me preoccupied for the past seven or more years.

1. After the 4th path moment in December 2010, quite soon came the insight that, although a substantial change has happened, this is only a start of a bigger process. Also Kenneth's additional stages past 4th were not convincing or satisfactory on the long run. It seemed like the deluded mind still had a significant momentum that easily drowned the awakening in real life situations, leading to reification of impermanent and insubstantial stuff on a regular basis.

On the other hand, 3rd and 4th paths opened up a new way of perceiving the experience as an unbounded wholeness that seemed to effectively cut through some of the solidity and stress. I was not happy with the information available on the subject until I found Tibetan buddhism and started practicing it in earnest. It turned out they have very detailed post awakening maps and extremely wide variety of refined tools to stabilize it. I also realized having some serious misconceptions about the view of unbounded wholeness (treating it as a kind of state to be maintained), but it sent me more or less on the right direction.

2. I think I am starting to have enough first hand experience on the Tibetan buddhist practices to start comparing how my current take on awakening differs from the post 4th. IME, it is about seeing through the veils of conceptual processing into the raw perception underneath in a deeper way. If I metaphorically compare the development of experience from ordinary mind to 4th path, I could use something like solid matter turning to liquid and then to gas as it becomes more refined. The Tibetan practices took it far beyond, like matter turning to light and experiential disappearance of distinctions, like for example between senses and thoughts.

Basically it is the same game of greed and rejection that causes stress, but on a more subtle playground. The deeper the insight into the real nature of things, the more one's experience is in harmony with the hard facts of life, producing less tension. But then something more interesting was revealed. Tibetans had developed a way of attuning to the wavelength of "karmic seeds", baggage of harmful patterns and unresolved issues accumulated during the lifetime(s) and special techniques to start the automatic release process (with a lot of techniques to speed that up). Over time this results in reduction of the actualization of negative patterns as well as an increased probability of the fruition of positive qualities. Is there an endpoint to this process? I have no idea and don't think that question really concerns a non-monastic yogi anyway. :lol:

3. The Tibetan maps are the most detailed and sophisticated I have so far come across. Everything I have so far tried out has happened exactly as promised. If the rest of the info, of which I have no experiential experience, is even 50% correct, it blows my mind. :ohmy:
Last Edit: 15 Aug 2018 08:59 by Antero.
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 15 Aug 2018 09:04 #109646

Thanks for posting this, Antero. I have a question: did you work with a teacher on these Tibetan practices? If o, how—by Skype, on retreat, or other? And do you have any recommendations for resources for the rest of us? Thanks again, Laurel
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 15 Aug 2018 10:03 #109649

Just to chime in on this discussion in general, not at a particular comment...

I think one thing that is worth mentioning is that having some 'final realization' doesn't stop one from having hobbies, enjoying art or pursuing excellence in life. There is no reason why modifying mind, body & perceptual patterns can not be done from the perspective of play. Furthermore, just because everything in terms of meditation is play does not mean one has completed their sadhana.
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 15 Aug 2018 18:20 #109662

Antero wrote:
Anthony Yeshe wrote:

Here are some questions to start:
1) Where are you at currently and honestly tell us where your end goal is. Do you believe there is an end goal (It depends how you approach this philosophically)
2) Defend/explain your experience(s) of awakening. What is it like for you not being in this state 24/7 once having experienced it at least once? How do you know it was the real deal? This is dangerous but it can be helpful to compare notes
3) What is your definition as final awakening/enlightenment/done? How do we get there? Who has this info sufficiently spelled out?

Hi Anthony, nice to see you online again and thanks for bringing this subject up. :cheer: It has kept me preoccupied for the past seven or more years.

1. After the 4th path moment in December 2010, quite soon came the insight that, although a substantial change has happened, this is only a start of a bigger process. Also Kenneth's additional stages past 4th were not convincing or satisfactory on the long run. It seemed like the deluded mind still had a significant momentum that easily drowned the awakening in real life situations, leading to reification of impermanent and insubstantial stuff on a regular basis.

On the other hand, 3rd and 4th paths opened up a new way of perceiving the experience as an unbounded wholeness that seemed to effectively cut through some of the solidity and stress. I was not happy with the information available on the subject until I found Tibetan buddhism and started practicing it in earnest. It turned out they have very detailed post awakening maps and extremely wide variety of refined tools to stabilize it. I also realized having some serious misconceptions about the view of unbounded wholeness (treating it as a kind of state to be maintained), but it sent me more or less on the right direction.

2. I think I am starting to have enough first hand experience on the Tibetan buddhist practices to start comparing how my current take on awakening differs from the post 4th. IME, it is about seeing through the veils of conceptual processing into the raw perception underneath in a deeper way. If I metaphorically compare the development of experience from ordinary mind to 4th path, I could use something like solid matter turning to liquid and then to gas as it becomes more refined. The Tibetan practices took it far beyond, like matter turning to light and experiential disappearance of distinctions, like for example between senses and thoughts.

Basically it is the same game of greed and rejection that causes stress, but on a more subtle playground. The deeper the insight into the real nature of things, the more one's experience is in harmony with the hard facts of life, producing less tension. But then something more interesting was revealed. Tibetans had developed a way of attuning to the wavelength of "karmic seeds", baggage of harmful patterns and unresolved issues accumulated during the lifetime(s) and special techniques to start the automatic release process (with a lot of techniques to speed that up). Over time this results in reduction of the actualization of negative patterns as well as an increased probability of the fruition of positive qualities. Is there an endpoint to this process? I have no idea and don't think that question really concerns a non-monastic yogi anyway. :lol:

3. The Tibetan maps are the most detailed and sophisticated I have so far come across. Everything I have so far tried out has happened exactly as promised. If the rest of the info, of which I have no experiential experience, is even 50% correct, it blows my mind. :ohmy:

Antero, thank you so much for contributing to this! Your answer actually blew my mind so much, it made me understand my own question better.
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 15 Aug 2018 21:08 #109668

Anthony Yeshe wrote:
Here are some questions to start:
1) Where are you at currently and honestly tell us where your end goal is. Do you believe there is an end goal (It depends how you approach this philosophically)
2) Defend/explain your experience(s) of awakening. What is it like for you not being in this state 24/7 once having experienced it at least once? How do you know it was the real deal? This is dangerous but it can be helpful to compare notes
3) What is your definition as final awakening/enlightenment/done? How do we get there? Who has this info sufficiently spelled out?

FWIW, I'm fully on-board with what Rod said somewhere else--I'll probably feel completely differently in a day or two and will regret not deleting this and just lurking. I'm not even sure why I'm writing this, but I'm willing to go with it right now.

1) Not sure where I'm at, but I'm enjoying exploring. I started with pragmatic dharma noting in 2009. First and second path were clear and obvious. After that, it did not seem like my path and pragmatic dharma paths lined up any more. Three years later out of the blue I had a major opening (not a fruition or Path moment) into knowing, awareness, the I AM, presence, a not-self POV on experience that is itself not a thing. I'm still not sure what to call it, but this knowing has not left since that day. Five years on it's still here and obvious.

That said, after that opening there was a huge sense of relief, bliss, etc. that lasted a couple of months. New territory seemed to open up, but faded away. The sense of doneness faded. Nothing anyone said was helpful. I could not even begin to say what was missing.

I had another big opening while at the last Buddhist Geeks conference a few years later that was even more confusing. Afterward, I started working with Hokai Sobol, doing Mahamudra. To echo Antero, there's a depth, subtlety, and profundity available in those practices that I'm just beginning to touch.

End goal? I'm not really sure what an end goal even would look like. When I get caught up in my own reactivity, an end goal seems highly desirable but unreachable. When I rest in what's already here (a practice that continues to deepen on- and off-cushion), wanting an end goal is just another rich experience. The more I want to make a project out of awakening, the more suffering I cause myself. I cannot even begin to count how many times I've re-learned this lesson.

2) What is it like for you not being in this state 24/7 once having experienced it at least once?
After my first big opening, Kate Gowen wrote something that still sticks with me. She said, "I wonder if we could just rename the "Dark Night" the "inevitable reappearance of everything I thought awakening would magically obliterate forever." And just get on with the time-consuming sorting out of the lifetime accumulation, the disposition of the "estate" of our former lives."
http://awakenetwork.org/forum/111-personal-practice-diaries-logs-comments-questions/8887-andy-s-journal?start=25#9825

The post-opening phases are fun, no doubt. But disappointment is also inevitable, and expected.

3: No end goal, no final awakening. Every awakening experience has proven way more subtle and interesting with time. So how do I know what is the real deal? Every experience is the real deal -- all this, right here, right now.
Last Edit: 15 Aug 2018 21:09 by Andy.
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 15 Aug 2018 21:35 #109670

Andy wrote:

FWIW, I'm fully on-board with what Rod said somewhere else--I'll probably feel completely differently in a day or two and will regret not deleting this and just lurking. I'm not even sure why I'm writing this, but I'm willing to go with it right now.

Hey dharma bro! Good to see you. I feel this way every post I've made this week. I think pointing the light back on ourselves can really help others.
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 15 Aug 2018 21:38 #109671

Andy wrote:
3: No end goal, no final awakening. Every awakening experience has proven way more subtle and interesting with time. So how do I know what is the real deal? Every experience is the real deal -- all this, right here, right now.

I love this. It's like finally getting on top of the wave and now you are a surfer. My deal has been that I've fallen off too much and lost motivation to keep going, if I'm being honest with myself
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 16 Aug 2018 08:26 #109676

So yes, maybe we can turn the conversation to what works? In my case, right now, it is a combination of vipassana investigation and concentration practices - just like it was in the mid-2000's. This wasn't; always so, however. I did go through a lengthy period of thinking nothing worked, and if I'm honest it's because I didn't want to spend the time practicing anymore. I was bored and tired of meditating so much. And, when things would take a turn for the worst, I didn't come back to practice because it was so much easier to just let things work themselves out. What was happening was no longer a mystery. The drive to understand how my experience was being generated was no longer there. I knew how that process worked, so why bother trying to find it again? Ego. Pure ego.

Well, that era ended some years ago when I realized that there was so much more to investigate. All the subtle bullshit I was generating for myself, all the habitual reactivity remained. I wasn't a better person, just a person who understood the process, dependent origination, how my experience was generated. I went back to practicing regularly because I need to get to the root of my own behavior. I suspect this is what Andy and Antero are doing using Mahamudra. I use Theravada practices - but I suspect we're seeking the same objective and learning the same things. It's what we know, not how we know it.
Last Edit: 16 Aug 2018 08:26 by Chris Marti.
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Lets get clear about Final Awakening 16 Aug 2018 09:03 #109678

I just finished a first round of 5 elements/5 dakinis practice that did a great job of helping me dig out and see more clearly the sneaky seeds of reactivity in my life. It is too recent for me to have processed it enough to say much more, but I recommend it to others with enthusiasm. It felt like just an extension of what I'd been doing with vipassana, really, but more targeted and in a way more sophisticated. Also with a fun twist, what with the dakinis.

Many thanks to shargrol for his help with it and the suggestion to try it in the first place. I used Ken McLeod's Wake Up to Your Life as a work book.
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The following user(s) said Thank You: Chris Marti, shargrol, Laurel Carrington, Michael V
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