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TOPIC: Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED

Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 02 Jul 2013 14:19 #13113

right on, Chris! and glad to hear a peep from you!
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 02 Jul 2013 19:46 #13122

Chris Marti wrote:
Mindfulness is a band aid being applied to the gushing arterial wound that is 21st century avarice.

Oh man... if I could fit that on a button it would be a hit at BG2013!
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 02 Jul 2013 20:17 #13127

Maybe just a button with a picture of a bandaid and the red circle/line that means "no" on it? Then people can ask and you can launch into a tirade.
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 02 Jul 2013 21:43 #13130

Yeah, but we need some blood to make it authentic. Maybe a great big bloodstain around the button on whatever you're wearing.
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 03 Jul 2013 08:13 #13142

I like that 'Buying Wisdom' article a lot, but I find it a bit ironic that the article's published in Tricycle, which to my mind is more part of the problem the article describes than of a solution... it's like rain on your wedding day.
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 03 Jul 2013 22:52 #13181

kennethfolkdharma.com/2013/07/why-meditation-is-not-a-productivity-tool

Great follow up by Kenneth.
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 04 Jul 2013 00:36 #13183

Folk in his element!
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 04 Jul 2013 08:50 #13193

Just read Kenneth's comments and I think there is another thing we can all do, different from what Kenneth proposes, which is all well and good, too: do not get co-opted by those who would use mindfulness or meditation to further avaricious goals, to abuse or manipulate other human beings. I think this is the more important "thing" to do for us as practitioners and that sort of co-opting was what I saw going on at Wisdom 2.0.
Last Edit: 04 Jul 2013 08:50 by Chris Marti.
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 04 Jul 2013 10:19 #13194

There is a thing that is mentioned mostly in tibetian traditions where the restricted sense of self can even co-opt spirituality until everything is reflected back as self, even the things that could lead to freedom. It's complete demonic possession, in a certain sense.

(I had a good quote in my files somewhere, but I forget where I put it.)

It seems like Trungpa had a good method for dealing with this (maybe that's where I read it?) He would ask people "where are you?" and follow up with "where is that?" enough times.
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 05 Jul 2013 10:26 #13215

Here's a great example of what we can look forward to - mediation is the daily habit of billionaires! So if you meditate maybe you can be a billionaire, too:

www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/05/busine...itate_n_3528731.html

Rupert Murdoch. Oprah. Arianna Huffington. Hedge Fund founders. Big company CEOs. It's the secret sauce!
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 05 Jul 2013 10:47 #13217

Sigh...
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 05 Jul 2013 11:00 #13218

Goldie Hawn, on the cover of Prescriptives magazine, goes on and on about it as well.

I would really, really like to know exactly what it is they're doing, and what it is they're getting out of it. Is it the pleasure of half an hour of access concentration, which really is quite pleasurable? Followed by the placebo effect, that is, thinking that this time spent in silence is the key to their success? Accompanied by the fact that these people have benefited from a combination of luck, intelligence, drive, ruthlessness, and stamina? In other words, meditation has almost nothing to do with it?

Edit: okay, I actually broke down and read the article. Are we just being a bunch of cranks here? Would the world be a better place with more people meditating? Are some of these people really doing good in the world? Whatever. I just need to get on with my life.
Last Edit: 05 Jul 2013 11:04 by Laurel Carrington.
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 05 Jul 2013 11:02 #13219

"I" eagerly await "my" riches.
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 05 Jul 2013 12:40 #13221

"Are we just being a bunch of cranks here? Would the world be a better place with more people meditating? Are some of these people really doing good in the world?"

No, I don't think we're just being a bunch of cranks. Some judgment needs to be applied to this area or the real cranks and wackos subsume the language we use and can then obscure the real message of what we've been doing for years. That's not what I would prefer to see happen, although I'm no doubt near to being powerless to do much about it. At least among this community, and for anyone who manages to trip over us on the Net, we can make sure we're a little more discriminating than The Huffington Post, right? :)

And some of those folks in the article are no doubt doing "good" things for others in the world, so it's not all "bad." If meditation has a general tendency to do anything "good" then it's probably a "good" thing on balance that these billionaires and powerful people do it.
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 05 Jul 2013 13:02 #13222

BTW - in regard to the real message: your mileage may vary but to me meditation has been an exploration, ongoing, of what it means to be human. "What am I?" would be a good way to express it.
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 05 Jul 2013 13:45 #13223

Also on Huffington Post...

10 Spiritually Transmitted Diseases

www.huffingtonpost.com/mariana-caplan-ph...-spiri_b_609248.html


5. The Spiritualized Ego: This disease occurs when the very structure of the egoic personality becomes deeply embedded with spiritual concepts and ideas. The result is an egoic structure that is "bullet-proof." When the ego becomes spiritualized, we are invulnerable to help, new input, or constructive feedback. We become impenetrable human beings and are stunted in our spiritual growth, all in the name of spirituality.
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 05 Jul 2013 14:11 #13225

shargrol wrote:
Also on Huffington Post...

10 Spiritually Transmitted Diseases

www.huffingtonpost.com/mariana-caplan-ph...-spiri_b_609248.html


5. The Spiritualized Ego: This disease occurs when the very structure of the egoic personality becomes deeply embedded with spiritual concepts and ideas. The result is an egoic structure that is "bullet-proof." When the ego becomes spiritualized, we are invulnerable to help, new input, or constructive feedback. We become impenetrable human beings and are stunted in our spiritual growth, all in the name of spirituality.

I'm reading that book right now. Funny. See "Duane's practice" thread
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 05 Jul 2013 18:20 #13230

Why are most of them doing TM? What is that, exactly?
tm.org wrote:
Unlike other techniques, the TM technique involves no concentration, contemplation or control of your mind. It is effortless and enjoyable, and can be practiced sitting comfortably in a chair.

The TM technique allows your mind to effortlessly transcend, to settle inward to the source of thought — a natural state of pure awareness and restful alertness. This automatic self-transcending is a unique feature of the TM technique.

Does anybody know what that really means?
Last Edit: 05 Jul 2013 18:21 by Tom Otvos.
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 05 Jul 2013 18:39 #13231

It means they have a really good marketing team. I think TM is some kind of mantra practice.
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 05 Jul 2013 19:02 #13232

TM (trademarked, no doubt) = Transcendental Meditation, as taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi beginning in the 1960s. He was THE meditation-marketing pioneer, the grandaddy of succeeding generations.
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 05 Jul 2013 19:07 #13233

My understanding of TM comes mostly from a Christian adaptation. The mantra is repeated constantly... so yes, the practice may be "easy" - but how hard is it to just sit for 30 minutes a day? The difficulty in any practice is overcoming our constant attempts to subvert it, avoid it, complicate it, etc.

This kind of mantra practice is not, btw "just tuning out thoughts" or something. The *relationship* to the mantra changes over time, just as the relationship to any meditation or object of devotional practice changes over time. A friend of mine who did a related practice for a while said the mantra may start as a repetition of words and focal point, but becomes like a living thing, repeating itself silently in the heart, becoming that which is all things, etc. etc. In other words, as insights arise they arise within the framework that practice offers.
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 05 Jul 2013 22:25 #13240

"I'm reading that book right now. Funny. See "Duane's practice" thread "

Well, even though so much of what Mariana Caplan says is astute, and I recommended her book to you-- I have to add a 'consider the source' caveat on a few things. One is that she lists the founder of Arica, Oscar Ichazo, as an example of the integrity to question his own capacity. Sounds good-- until I encountered a much darker account (in a Gurdjieff magazine) of the man, his teachings, and his "enlightenment."

The other is in a throw-away line, and comments I followed up on, in the HuffPo piece. Her "partner" is Marc Gafni. And thereby hangs another dark tale. integral-options.blogspot.com/2011/09/br...ual-impropriety.html

So, in spite of her expertise, she has been a serial apologist for some pretty questionable behavior. Caveat lecteur.
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 06 Jul 2013 09:04 #13247

"… she has been a serial apologist for some pretty questionable behavior."

I was wondering when that would come to light. I didn't want to be the meany.
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 06 Jul 2013 09:13 #13248

Kate Gowen wrote:
"I'm reading that book right now. Funny. See "Duane's practice" thread "

Well, even though so much of what Mariana Caplan says is astute, and I recommended her book to you-- I have to add a 'consider the source' caveat on a few things. One is that she lists the founder of Arica, Oscar Ichazo, as an example of the integrity to question his own capacity. Sounds good-- until I encountered a much darker account (in a Gurdjieff magazine) of the man, his teachings, and his "enlightenment."

The other is in a throw-away line, and comments I followed up on, in the HuffPo piece. Her "partner" is Marc Gafni. And thereby hangs another dark tale. integral-options.blogspot.com/2011/09/br...ual-impropriety.html

So, in spite of her expertise, she has been a serial apologist for some pretty questionable behavior. Caveat lecteur.

Yeah I dig it. I don't feel like I get too wrapped up in people or what they do. Good teaching is good teaching regardless of the source, in a way I've learned some really important stuff from some pretty crappy people.

When I started getting into all this Dharma business for real I was listening to Ken McLeod Unfettered Mind podcasts and found him (IMHO) pompous and even a little obnoxious but still really gained a lot from the content of his teachings. Apparently there has been some sort of scandal with him as well. I just shrug my shoulders and pick up the gold.
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Kenneth Folk featured in WIRED 06 Jul 2013 10:16 #13249

shargrol wrote:
There is a thing that is mentioned mostly in tibetian traditions where the restricted sense of self can even co-opt spirituality until everything is reflected back as self, even the things that could lead to freedom. It's complete demonic possession, in a certain sense.

(I had a good quote in my files somewhere, but I forget where I put it.)

It seems like Trungpa had a good method for dealing with this (maybe that's where I read it?) He would ask people "where are you?" and follow up with "where is that?" enough times.

I think it was in Cutting thru Spiritual Materialism, Trungpa explains the tantric term Rudrahood, something like a samadhi of self-preoccupation, I'm doing this, rather than completely giving oneself to the samadhi.
Last Edit: 06 Jul 2013 10:16 by Kacchapa.
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