Another Sitting Journal

Hey all,

Clayton here. I have been talking with Kenneth and it seems like a good idea to start a thread. I hope to have a record of my sits, and hopefully get some advice from the other members here.

Quick background... I am 21, been interested in Buddhism since I was 19 but really played intellectual games with it until early December when I sat my first 10 day retreat. After reading MTCT and talking to Kenneth I tentatively think I could have had an A & P event. Since then I have been a lot calmer person. Stuff comes up... had a friend die unexpectedly... you know life happens... but overall things feel on the upswing. Some sittings are harder than others but I don't think I have entered the Dark Nite... How long did some of you go after A & P before DN? I must be a fool to want the DN to appear... haha but after reading MTCT I really aspire to Stream Entry. Has anyone got to this attainment using the Goenka style of Vipassana? Or did most people switch to the Mahasi style?

Today:

Morning sit: Woke up earlier than expected. Sat for 40 mins... mind a bit chatty this morning. realize I should always attain access concentration through anapasati before attempting scanning. (correct?)

Afternoon: 40 Mins... want to get back to hour sittings. Will redownload meditation timer, computer crashed recently. Had been riding my bike... so primarily observed heat all over body. More concentrated...

Yesterdays sittings... I found focus on small a area and almost welled up with tears... then next sit focused on a small area triggered rapture... trying to keep equanimity with whatever arises. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't

Sorry clearer sitting descriptions will be along tomorrow... I didn't plan on recording these are ow so brief recollections...

Anyway I would appreciate any input... Thanks Guys

"realize I should always attain access concentration through anapasati before attempting scanning. (correct?)"-ClaytonL

Hi Clayton,

I like to avoid saying "always." It's a good idea to scan the body whenever you think of it during the day, whether talking to people or driving your car, so access concentration isn't necessary. When you practice formally, though, concentration is a beautiful thing and the more you have, the better your practice can be if you balance concentration with investigation. As far as access concentration, what is that, anyway? It means different things to different people. I don't find it to be a very helpful concept and have rarely seen my own practice in those terms. Bottom line, are you concentrated and calm enough to notice what's going on in your body and mind? If not, do anapana or some other concentration practice until your mind settles down a bit.

See if you can include some more descriptive words in your next report. Warmth, softness, coolness, pressure, tingling, stinging, burning, itching, pulsing, throbbing, etc. are all words that keep you accountable. You can only use those words if you are paying close attention to your experience, and if you are paying close attention to your experience, you will make progress.

Keep up the good work,

Kenneth

Thanks Kenneth,

Yeah I just mean in formal meditation I should strive to settle the mind before scanning in formal practice. Always is a slippery word indeed.

This mornings sit: I focused on much smaller areas... about the size of a nickle I noted vibrations, they were coming and going consistently 2-3 times a second. Sometimes I would feel tingling, or itching in a part of the body I wasn't observing directly. These sensations came and went. One twinge from a rapture wave... cooling sensation, euphoria...First thought was Impermanent... right then I felt like I dropped the wave and kept scanning. I had a lucid dream last night (more frequent since I started practice) and I remember that. Noted: dream, dream. Overall I noted more this sitting than I had ever done. I found it very useful for staying honest and focused on what I am sitting for...

I'll be by later and post my evenings sit report....

Clayton

Sensational report, Clayton! This kind of effort will definitely get it done. You've included lots of detail and simple, clear descriptions of your experience, even down to the frequency of the vibrations.

Heads up, everyone, this is what a good report looks like!

Keep in mind that there is no right answer about what your experience should be; it is what it is. It changes constantly and where you have raptures and vibrations in one sitting, in the next sitting you may have none. The point is to notice your experience clearly and precisely. And clear, concise reports like this one keep you accountable because you can't describe phenomena if you weren't paying attention. Conversely, if you are paying attention, you will continue to develop through the Progress of Insight.

Keep 'em coming, Clayton.

Kenneth

Just finished my evening sitting. I intended to do one sweep for about thirty minutes then switch to second gear. I set a timer for the first time in several weeks. I didn't make the hour after about 45 minutes I opened my eyes... a bit disappointing. I did fine in the 1st gear... predominately the same 2-3 vibrations per second. once or twice it was up to maybe 5... and at times I only felt about 1 a second. I had exercised earlier this evening so early on I would feel heaviness creep in usually in 3-5 second waves. Got easier somewhere between 20 and 30 mins. Went to second gear... who am I? a flash of a time in my life I am not proud of arose... then I felt my heart start to soften. I wasn't familir with the koan like 2nd gear... usually I ask myself

1. Am I form?
2. Am I sensations?
3. Am I thought?
4. Am I consciousness?

then I feel enough ego softening to just sit... Anyway went back to 1st gear... at one point I just decided it was time to be done because I had gotten off my original plan. Ow well... for anyone following stay tuned tomorrow same bat time same bat channel

Anther day another sitting...

This morning I sat for 55 mins. For the first time in a couple years I think I am experiencing growing pains in my thighs. I noted the tension and the release as the cramps arose and passed away. Suddenly I realized there needs to tension to be release and there needs to be release in order to be tension. lol It felt like a very daoist thing to think. Anyway its always a pleasure to greet pain with equanimity.

This evening I was totally exhausted after my day. I decided to just lay down and scan for sensation. It was a halfhearted effort at best I expected to be out like a light within 10 minutes. Well the strangest thing happened... I stayed awake. The sensations became clear slow vibrations one maybe 2 times a second. Slight tingeing in the area surrounding areas of focus so e.g. focusing on big toe tingling in foot. Mara felt like nagging me a bit--throwing the past in my face. I felt particularly vulnerable I think because I was lying down. But I didn't get caught in any loops. Nearing the end I was shocked I felt like I had been slowly calmly recharging a battery. Not in a powerful obvious way like working with chi gong or something but very subtly. So after 45 minutes I got up having finished my scan and feeling refreshed...

May everyone benefit from their practice today...

Clayton

This mornings sitting: Normal scanning scene... I suddenly felt like I could control the frequency of the vibrations. It seemed I could either slow them down or speed them up. I immediately was disappointed thinking I had stumbled intro some delusion. Towards the end of the sitting I think I clarified this phenomenon a little more... what was happening was if I kept the area of attention relatively diffuse e.g. sized nickle to quarter I would feel normal slower (2-3hertz) vibrations... if I concentrated intently on a smaller and smaller area the vibrations would speed up considerably. Perhaps up to 10-15 hertz. I had one serious craving. Then towards the end I had on serious aversion I felt like I was about to tear up... then I just noted (aversion) and immediately it fell away... I was listening to music after the sitting and realized I don't get as much static (music, tv etc) coming through in my meditation these days... it was really bad about a week before I joined this forum... I guess I just need to keep practicing the keep peeling back the onion...

"Then towards the end I had on serious aversion I felt like I was about to tear up... then I just noted (aversion) and immediately it fell away... I was listening to music after the sitting and realized I don't get as much static (music, tv etc) coming through in my meditation these days... it was really bad about a week before I joined this forum... I guess I just need to keep practicing the keep peeling back the onion..."-Clayton

Good report, Clayton.

Try not to form any conclusions about what good practice is. Sometimes you will note something and it will go away. Sometimes it won't. Remember Bill Hamilton's three possibilities: Could get better. Could get worse. Could stay the same.

It's tempting to think that meditation is a cure for unpleasantness. It isn't. Just keep noting and let the chips fall where they will. Expect nothing.

Keep up the good work,

Kenneth

Thanks man that really was great advice. You really hit the nail on the head. My sitting this morning was helped a lot by your advice. I had no idea how many of my normal defense mechanism were still up... or how much grasping I was bringing to my practice. I am cured now... haha but seriously it was a good sitting. Much more acceptance... less desire for things to be different. I felt what I guess I would call the bubbling brook of crud. I had not noticed it so clearly since retreat. Its just like a weird oozz of unpleasantness covers my skin. But hey its cool I am sure whatever I experienced was right for this stage in my practice...

Thanks Again,

Clayton

"I felt what I guess I would call the bubbling brook of crud. I had not noticed it so clearly since retreat. Its just like a weird oozz of unpleasantness covers my skin."-Clayton

Ah, yes, the "cosmic yuck." (Another Bill Hamilton line.)

Keep on truckin'. By the way, the cosmic yuck is one of the things that eventually goes away. It takes a long time and a lot of practice, but it's a payoff. Other things that go away? Depression, insomnia, FOMO (fear of missing out), roller coaster sittings, The Ride, worry that you aren't doing it right, and the need to be something other than you are. Come to think of it, this practice really works! Meanwhile, whatever is in presenting itself in this moment is "the door to the door to the door."

"I am sure whatever I experienced was right for this stage in my practice."-Clayton

You've got it. Steady as she goes.

Kenneth

Another challenging sitting. Hard to stay concentrated. Mind racing many painful sensations, heat (intense), tension, soreness... heaviness... Basically Some cosmic yuck going on... The mind felt very powerful but really erratic.

Bearing in mind Kenneth's advice I found this Gem when reading Saints And Psychopaths yesterday "Once Deep Insight (A &P) is attained the time it takes to reach the first level of enlightenment depends on being able to observe precisely what is happening without trying to manipulate what is happening."

Things are starting to get a bit more challenging... But I think I am too deep into this to bail out now...

Well last Tuesday I send Kenneth a PM where I basically explained how I was freaking out because I was sure I had entered the Dark Night... when would it end... what should I do kind of stuff... I just went back and re-read it... it seems almost comical now that I got so worked up... but those are the breaks.

On Wednesday I wrote this in my sitting Journal; Standard sweep. Mind Unweildy. Thoughts like water in the desert. Found myself getting lost in them often. Thought of Buddha nature. Some comfort. Then spent a minute lost in that thought. Return to sensation. Finished first scan. Decided to observe the impermanence of each of the sense doors (never done that). Very Powerful. Went through the sense doors twice. Hunger pangs'¦ finished sititng 50 minutes.

This morning. I began going through the sense doors. Then a sweep. Then the Sense doors... Then the second sweep (almost always more clarity the second time through) Then again to the sense doors. I like the sense door observation... It has helped my practice... After reading Jackson's thread I have been inspired to incorporate 2nd gear to daily life. I had a very powerful 2nd gear session on the subway on Thursday.

I'll just keep on Keeping on...

Saturday: Swept. Mind chattering lost in future. Then opened up trying to be mindful of the six sense doors. Pain in left shoulder. Accept it. Don't greet it with aversion. Deconstruct into many sensations. Where is the I? Softening of tension in chest. Shoulder pain softened as well. Sense doors practice going well. Feel on the verge of something. Observe Excitement. Stay cool. Easy does it'¦ 45 mins Longest time spent in sense door/free awareness practice.

Sunday: I would like to write this down before my memory gets a chance to distort the events. I began with unusually strong concentration on the breath. I thought about what it would be like to attain stream entry. I feel like I might have gotton to one of the lower jhanas. Then I started scanning my body searching for the three characteristics. Preassure somewhere between the third eye and the crown chakra. Then I started feeling my awareness wind down almost like I was about to fall asleep then a split second later I would come back to awareness. After this happened maybe 5 or 6 times I had finished my scan and went to 6 sense doors awareness. I have been getting close to what may be formations. I observed the sense doors for probably 10 or 15 minutes. During this time I felt pretty chilled out but nothing out of the ordinary. Now I sit here pondering. Was that stream entry? Was I just almost falling asleep? I didn't feel that tired. But the total sit was only like 35 minutes'¦ I felt like I could have sat for hours but I just didn't feel the desire'¦ surely that wasn't it. It doesn't matter I know I am meditating tomorrow'¦ I just take life one day at a time anyway

Later on last night: Its probably been an hour or so since I last wrote in the sitting journal. I just feel'¦ clear. Yeah I think clarity is the word I am looking for. I realize I have been obsessing so much over the maps and all that'”its time to just be. We will see how things continue over the next few days before drawing any conclusions. For one I thought the mind would be hyped up but its just chill. Not sensually very pleasant but just chill.

This Morning (Monday Singapore Time):This morning I had a fine sit. It didn't have any fruitions. I just sat. Followed the breath got concentrated. A very quick sweep then some free form awareness focusing on the sense doors. Very easy'¦ not rapturous but very cool. I fell like I had been rigorously spending 1-2 hours a day trying to court a women (my practice) and now I can just lie with her'¦ no effort. I realize how pretentious and almost laughable my serious approach to the practice has been.

Didn't have time to sit formally last night. Lying in bed mindful of sensations I think I had another fruition. A split second of nothing none of the sense doors were active.. couldn't even have conceived of the sense doors in that moment... then back into consciousness. This was before I started to get tired so I doubt it was a moment of nodding off. Followed by a wave of ease...

This morning only had about 1/2 hour to sit before school. Nothing to report things were pretty easy. Even the sound of renovation next door didn't bother me...

Hey everybody... I am back. I decided to re-read this thread seeing how things looked in retrospect. I realize now what a great asset it was/is in my practice so I have decided to fire it back up. A couple days ago I had what I would say way a very clear fruition. It felt like my system crashed completely and rebooted a split second later. Followed by a great feeling of ease... This morning I think I had another fruition, but it was less definitive. I was trying to follow blinking my eyelids (Can you clairify this a little Kennith I am a bit confused as to what you mean... you blink your eyes while closed and look for the end of the sensation?) towards the end of my session then there was a momentary awareness that I had lost a split second somewhere. Followed by ease. I am on break so I went around almost all day just not concerned with self, Sitting on the Subway I felt such compassion for everyone who looked so caught up in their own identity.
This evening I went through the nanas up to 11... but no fruition... Kinda a bit bummed about that so I guess I slipped back into 10... again and again I realize that not manipulating or projecting onto my experience is the answer... But in practice its not always so easy...

*Disclaimer I am not claiming any attainment--these are just my thoughts at the moment*

We, the people, demand more Clayton updates! What's going on now, Clayton?

Kenneth

haha thanks Kenneth... These are cut and pasted from PM interaction between Kenneth and I going over some events as of late;

Hello Kenneth,

I wanted to check back in with you and let you know what is happening with my practice, hopefully get some feedback. I am not sure if you read the last couple post on my sitting journal or not. Basically on the last day of February I had what I thought might have been Stream Entry. Since then several things have happened;

-Concentration has improved (stumbled into Jhana territory while doing insight practice, not cultivating Jhanas currently)
-I find myself cycling during each sitting and during the day
-I do not always experience fruition at will
-Resolutions to do so tend to create more craving

My supposed Fruitions usually go like this: I will have finished a sitting and am just relaxing, lying down, listening to a dharma talk maybe. Then in the same way an eye blink closes the sight sense door--everything blinks for a split second then comes back. Then I get energy circulating around the body and a wave of ease. I have noticed something else in the last week. Sometimes it feels like Chi or sexual energy is gathering somewhere (usually not always in the legs) then I get the blink and a slight twitch wherever the energy was. I haven't read about this and it sounds more like something during the A&P although I don't feel anything like how I felt going through my A&P last december. No Mania. I spontaneously start dis-embedding from phenomenon many times throughout the day... There has been a profound subtle shift in my perception. My mind just isn't doing certain things it used to do, although its hard to figure out exactly what left...

Anyway Kenneth I just want to let you know that your feedback has helped me a lot--I respect your dharma opinion and I was hoping to get some feedback on what I have been going through...

To which Kenneth replied...

Your practice is excellent, and your reports, as always, are clear. I think you should cut and paste your note to me into your practice thread and continue to update it. You can include my response if you choose.

Stream entry? Could be. It will become more clear over time.

I'll respond to some of your points:

1) Concentration has improved (stumbled into Jhana territory while doing insight practice, not cultivating Jhanas currently).

Not uncommon to stumble into jhanas after stream entry.

2) I find myself cycling during each sitting and during the day.

Yogis cycle after stream entry.

3) I do not always experience fruition at will.

After 1st Path, most yogis don't have much control over frutions. More control after 2nd.

4) Resolutions to do so tend to create more craving.

Good insight! You'll spend the rest of your life refining the art of non-manipulation in your practice. You will learn how to call up states and fruitions, but you won't do it very much because there is always a subtle backlash.

Taken together, at face value, assuming that you aren't "scripting" from something you've read (which is not an allegation at all but just an acknowledgment that it can happen because all yogis are human), what you are describing is consistent with stream entry.

Keep up the good work, understanding that stream entry is a significant milestone but is just one small step on a much longer journey.

Next step: map your mind. Track your progress up and down through the cycles (the jhanic arc) and become an expert on your own experience. This will deepen your concentration and allow you to access, deconstruct, and objectify parts of your mind that you don't yet have access to. When you can see that everything that arises in the mind, including the sense of watcher, is coming and going without referring back to anyone, you will be enlightened.

All the best,

Kenneth

So a few more thoughts this morning. As to scripting, believe me I have been very hesitant to believe some of these things were actually happening to me. Mostly because I have read so much about then. I have the utmost respect for the power of delusion. Not to say it couldn't be happening. As to your advice, I will start mapping my mind. I will re-read the sections on Jhana on this page. Start working up through the Jhanic arch... One little anecdote I thought I would share with the class

So last week I went to go see Ajahn Brahm speak. He defiantly is not as hard hitting as the movement we are a part of, nonetheless I have little doubt he is very attained. Regardless, I really support what he did ordaining the Nuns so I thought I would go see him while he was passing through Singapore. I went, it wasn't where it was advertised to be. I took the bus to a wrong stop. He wasn't there. I started getting frustrated. Then I resigned to take the bus home. I noticed a sense of entitlement, "I practice hard I deserve to see this teacher, why is this happening." then I objectified the feelings. What does it feel like; tension, throbbing, contraction. Then I finally realized where the talk was supposed to be and made it for the last hour. When talking on the phone with a friend that night he ask jokingly, "So was it a spiritual experience?" I said no the spiritual experience was learning to observe the sensations that made up my frustration because I was sure I had missed the talk... THAT (to me at least) is the difference between paying lip service to the dharma and living the dharma...

"When talking on the phone with a friend that night he ask jokingly, "So was it a spiritual experience?" I said no, the spiritual experience was learning to observe the sensations that made up my frustration because I was sure I had missed the talk... THAT (to me at least) is the difference between paying lip service to the dharma and living the dharma.-ClaytonL

Clayton, you get it. Thanks for making my day with that comment.

Kenneth

"

My supposed Fruitions usually go like this: I will have finished a sitting and am just relaxing, lying down, listening to a dharma talk maybe. Then in the same way an eye blink closes the sight sense door--everything blinks for a split second then comes back. Then I get energy circulating around the body and a wave of ease. "

Hi Clayton,

Your description of the possible fruitions sounds very much like what I experience with fruitions. Just before a fruition is about to occur, there seems to be a build up of energy, a slight physical movement of something at the crown or more specifically just below the crown behind the eyes for me. This all happens within a second, very fast and my eyelids close down automatically just as the cessation , blip out occurs and then there are sensations of release at the mentioned area and then within a couple of seconds there is a very blissful calming flow of vibrations which spreads , for me, from my head downwards throughout the body. Several seconds after the cessation and during the inital release of bliss, the mind is blank and feels like it hasnt come back online a 100 percent. Chris explained it as rebooting and this is a good analogy. Then a couple of seconds after the mind is back online so to speak. If you are sensitve enough you probably can feel some sort of physcial movement within the brain . This is my experience and I was surprised to see this explained by August Leo in his practice notes. Something to look out for maybe.

Clayton,

I just read your practice journal and wanted to thank you for posting this. It is really inspiring! Please keep us all up to date.

Thanks for the replies Nikolia and Ron. I really appreciate the feedback. Today I went to church with the family so I only had time to do about 15 minutes of Qi Gong before leacing. This evening I sat down to sit;

-Initially scattered thoughts
-quickly a bit of pleasant attention Arising and Passing and very brief Dissolution
Moving on quickly to the Dark Night
-It hit me like a wall of chaotic thought patterns, tension in the chest (anxiety)
Then reliving mistakes of the past, cosmic crud, though the crud was seemingly thinner than ?pre path?
-Revolution of sex and food- foul mental images
Desire for Deliverance- "God why do I do this to myself (haha) just let this end" A noticeable bump up in concentration
Re-observation (everything coming to a head--although I have done this enough to know that the best thing to do is relax into sensations, thoughts, etc) So thats what I do
Another Bump up in concentration (kind of like shifting gears in a car and getting a lot more torque--though it also feels kind of like hitting a small bump in the road
Equanimity-- Ahhh... There is a sensation its pleasant, another is not, wow hot and cold sensations within a 2 inch area cool, its all ok. Finish the Sitting at about 30 minutes.

I know I need to suck it up and get out of my comfort zone and do some concentration practice... Thats all for this evening