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TOPIC: Kenneth's notes

Kenneth's notes 02 Sep 2015 13:38 #100250

Listening for something that can't be heard.
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Kenneth's notes 02 Sep 2015 14:23 #100251

Looking for something that can't be seen.
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Kenneth's notes 02 Sep 2015 15:04 #100253

Converging on the unborn.
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Kenneth's notes 02 Sep 2015 15:24 #100254

Today's reading material: The Latin Vulgate Bible. Not good at Latin yet, just using these juicy bible stories to improve my reading ability. I'm up to the part where smooth-skinned Jacob deceives his father, Isaac, by impersonating Jacob's hairy twin Esau, who is moments older than Jacob, and therefore Isaac's first born (primogenitus) and natural heir. Jacob's mother, Rebekah, puts Jacob up to it. Not sure why Rebekah likes Jacob better than Esau, except maybe that he isn't as hairy. In any case, Esau seems like a nice guy, but totally gets the short end of the stick, since father Isaac falls for the ruse and gives Jacob his blessing and makes him heir to all his goats and stuff.
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Kenneth's notes 02 Sep 2015 15:31 #100255

Sounds like someone needs an attorney to sort out the estate claims.
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Kenneth's notes 03 Sep 2015 22:05 #100297

Today's practice question:

What doesn't hurt?
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Kenneth's notes 04 Sep 2015 14:00 #100310

Undun
by Randy Bachman (The Guess Who)

She's come undone
She didn't know what she was headed for
And when I found what she was headed for
It was too late

She's come undone
She found a mountain that was far too high
And when she found out she couldn't fly
It was too late

It's too late
She's gone too far
She's lost the sun

She's come undone
She wanted truth, but all she got was lies
Came the time to realize
And it was too late

She's come undone
She didn't know what she was headed for
And when I found what she was headed for
Mama, it was too late

It's too late
She's gone too far
She's lost the sun
She's come undone
No-na-na, no-na-na, no-na-na

Too many mountains and not enough stairs to climb
Too many churches and not enough truth
Too many people and not enough eyes to see
Too many lives to lead and not enough time

It's too late
She's gone too far
She's lost the sun
She's come undone

Doe-doe-doe-doe-doe, doe, un-doe-doe-doe, un-doe-doe-doe
Doe doe-doe-doe-doe, un-doe-doe-doe, doe-doe-doe
Doe doe-doe-doe, doe, doe-doe-doe, doe, doe

It's too late
She's gone too far
She's lost the sun

She's come undone
She didn't know what she was headed for
And when I found what she was headed for
It was too late

She's come undone
She found a mountain that was far too high
And when she found out she couldn't fly
Mama, it was too late

It's too late
She's gone too far
She's lost the sun
She's come undone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_gxQt-bhik
Last Edit: 04 Sep 2015 22:43 by Kenneth Folk. Reason: added link to video
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Kenneth's notes 05 Sep 2015 13:49 #100318

What would it feel like to be intelligent and self-aware inside the black box? You could sense the inputs. You could, to some extent, be aware of the outputs, but only as more inputs. Any understanding you might have of the process would only come to you as more intputs. The sense that you exist as the knower of the experience would also come to you in the form of inputs.

What would it feel like to be intelligent and self-aware inside the black box?

It would feel like this! This experience, this human life... we are self-aware intelligence inside the black box.
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Kenneth's notes 05 Sep 2015 16:15 #100319

Suzanne Cook-Greuter's tour de force paper on ego development:

A DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF NINE ACTION
LOGICS IN THE LEADERSHIP DEVELOPMENT FRAMEWORK:
ADAPTED FROM EGO DEVELOPMENT THEORY

www.cook-greuter.com/Detailed%20descrip%...logics%20updated.pdf
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Kenneth's notes 06 Sep 2015 08:56 #100330

An interesting quote from the paper above. Not sure of the original source, but...

"As a Buddhist percept says: Understanding is the ultimate illusion."
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Kenneth's notes 06 Sep 2015 12:54 #100335

If I were king, I would decree Global Non-nonduality Week. Nobody would get to say "nonduality" for a whole seven days.

If people wanted to talk about their ideas or experience, they would have no choice but to say something coherent.
Last Edit: 06 Sep 2015 12:55 by Kenneth Folk.
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Kenneth's notes 07 Sep 2015 21:32 #100346

Today's practice phrase:

I don't need you to be other than you are.
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Kenneth's notes 08 Sep 2015 21:27 #100355

Today's practice phrase:

This is happening.
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Kenneth's notes 09 Sep 2015 16:47 #100368

Today's practice phrase:

Fundamental attribution error.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error
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Kenneth's notes 09 Sep 2015 21:44 #100373

Today's reading material: L'Île mystérieuse de Jules Verne
Last Edit: 12 Sep 2015 02:43 by Kenneth Folk.
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Kenneth's notes 12 Sep 2015 02:42 #100406

Today's practice question:

What if I'm not in this picture?

Today's reading material:

Napoleão: Uma Biografia por Emanual Sousa (A biography of Napoleon Bonaparte, written in Portuguese.)
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Kenneth's notes 12 Sep 2015 09:42 #100410

What if I'm not in this picture?

Can there be suffering if there is no sufferer? ;)
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Kenneth's notes 12 Sep 2015 22:44 #100413

Eric wrote:
What if I'm not in this picture?

Can there be suffering if there is no sufferer? ;)

Yes.

Edited to add:

It's such a deep question, it seems to go on forever. "Can there be suffering without a sufferer?"

Nevertheless, it can be answered in a straightforward way, at least from a Buddhist perspective:

There never was a sufferer. There isn't one now. But suffering is so ubiquitous that it made the number one spot on the Buddha's Noble Truth list.
Last Edit: 12 Sep 2015 23:57 by Kenneth Folk.
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Kenneth's notes 13 Sep 2015 08:48 #100418

While it is a complex rabit-hole of a subject, I can't help but be fascinated by it. Allow me to pick your brain...
There never was a sufferer. There isn't one now. But suffering is so ubiquitous that it made the number one spot on the Buddha's Noble Truth list.
But the illusion of a sufferer is alive in well in most people, yes? Debunking this illusion must at least provide some measure of relief.

Put another way: does an arahat suffer if they stub their toe? :ohmy:
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Kenneth's notes 13 Sep 2015 10:14 #100419

The toe is stubbed. :)
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Kenneth's notes 13 Sep 2015 12:20 #100421

There never was a sufferer. There isn't one now. But suffering is so ubiquitous that it made the number one spot on the Buddha's Noble Truth list.

I'm struggling with statements like this these days because as I experience things there both is a sufferer and is not a sufferer. And that statement is fallacious, too, because it leaves the impression that the is/is not dichotomy occurs in some time-bound, alternating manner -- when in fact it seems to occur at the same time all the time. The difference seems to be in how I perceive it at any given moment.

Sorry to get all metaphysical on you all again :(
Last Edit: 13 Sep 2015 17:55 by Chris Marti.
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Kenneth's notes 13 Sep 2015 16:05 #100423

Eric wrote:
While it is a complex rabit-hole of a subject, I can't help but be fascinated by it. Allow me to pick your brain...
There never was a sufferer. There isn't one now. But suffering is so ubiquitous that it made the number one spot on the Buddha's Noble Truth list.
But the illusion of a sufferer is alive in well in most people, yes? Debunking this illusion must at least provide some measure of relief.

Put another way: does an arahat suffer if they stub their toe? :ohmy:

There can be pain without suffering. There can even be emotional pain and yet no suffering. If, for example, a person is in pain, yet simply sees this as what is happening right now, and does not resist it, there is awareness, openness, and yet no dukkha. This doesn't mean that, all things being equal, one might not say "I'd rather not see X happen." But X happening is the way things are. So you can acknowledge a preference, and see through it.
Last Edit: 13 Sep 2015 16:06 by Laurel Carrington.
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Kenneth's notes 13 Sep 2015 18:18 #100424

This suffering language gets very confusing. I wish we had better words for the various flavors of things we talk about. Suffering is used in so many different ways that I'm surprised anyone ever figures out what we're talking about. And going out on a limb - I've almost never been without suffering of some sort. I may know what it is and how it works, and that helps make it understandable and less painful, but there is still suffering when I experience emotions like deep anger or the loss of a loved one. I used to think I had to get totally free of suffering but the more I investigate the more I realize that the end of suffering is not consciousness, so if I'm to be awake (in any sense) I have to submit (admit?) to some level of suffering. It is inescapable. I see some folks trying to get free by going to great lengths to make it go away but I don't think anyone who is alive has ever fully escaped suffering. I think we can maybe hide from suffering for a while but suffering catches up to us eventually, and we find out all we were doing was pretending it was possible to eliminate it. Bypassing.
Last Edit: 13 Sep 2015 18:25 by Chris Marti.
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Kenneth's notes 13 Sep 2015 18:49 #100425

What do you call acceptance of suffering? I think that's what people are pointing to when they say there is no suffering but there is pain.
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Kenneth's notes 13 Sep 2015 19:38 #100427

Yes, that's generally what people mean, I think, by, "There is pain but no suffering." But isn't that a rather confusing way to express the underlying process and result?
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