Recent Posts - Awakenetwork - awakenetwork.org - awakenetwork.org http://awakenetwork.org Tue, 18 Sep 2018 14:17:01 -0400 Kunena Forum (Joomla) /components/com_kunena/template/blue_eagle/images/icons/rss.png Recent Posts - Awakenetwork - awakenetwork.org en-gb Awakenwtwork Participation - by: Geoff http://awakenetwork.org/forum/2-general-forum-topics/13669-awakenetwork-participation?start=100#109924 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/2-general-forum-topics/13669-awakenetwork-participation?start=100#109924
That said, I have enjoyed AN as a smaller site to connect with a few key members. I came in post KFD, though. To me, it's like AN is a smaller, more connected sangha amidst the larger ones of the internet. Most of that is the respect I have for the group here, though, and this is the place said group congregates.]]>
General Forum Topics Tue, 18 Sep 2018 13:45:40 -0400
Lets get clear about Final Awakening - by: Andromeda http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=100#109917 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=100#109917
To me, what is most interesting is seeing what unique human beings, wherever they are on the spectrum of awakening, are doing with their lives. What are we waking up to? What can we learn from each other? What can we experience together? I don't need or really want to view anyone through a conceptual lens which ultimately creates a separation from experience. There may be moments where that is helpful, and for those I am grateful for the maps, but for the most part it seems counterproductive. I prefer to hold the maps lightly and not spend too much time on them. Life is too short.

Of course, I've never been a very mappy practitioner and my language skills when it comes to describing my internal experience are relatively poor. Maybe if I were better at it, it would be more fun. :)]]>
General Dharma Discussions Mon, 17 Sep 2018 07:09:20 -0400
Lets get clear about Final Awakening - by: Noah http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=100#109915 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=100#109915 Laurel Carrington wrote:
Years ago I posted a thread entitled, “Many ways to Rome, or many Romes?” It’s a perennial question, isn’t it. FWIW, I think different paths emphasize different things, and bring different results en route, but that at the outer limits of the thing (as Daniel would say :lol: ) it’s the same.

+100]]>
General Dharma Discussions Mon, 17 Sep 2018 00:20:16 -0400
Lets get clear about Final Awakening - by: Laurel Carrington http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=100#109913 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=100#109913 General Dharma Discussions Sun, 16 Sep 2018 18:48:45 -0400 Lets get clear about Final Awakening - by: Andromeda http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=100#109912 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=100#109912 General Dharma Discussions Sun, 16 Sep 2018 18:36:33 -0400 Lets get clear about Final Awakening - by: shargrol http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=100#109911 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=100#109911 General Dharma Discussions Sun, 16 Sep 2018 18:29:08 -0400 Lets get clear about Final Awakening - by: Chris Marti http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=100#109909 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=100#109909 General Dharma Discussions Sun, 16 Sep 2018 18:20:00 -0400 Lets get clear about Final Awakening - by: shargrol http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109908 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109908
amount of sitting practice/retreat time
degree of undigested material from previous stages of development, including traumas
spiritual scene within which the insights happen
amount of therapy/teacher interaction
general life context (financial security/insecurity, worldly responsibilties, social/national/world chaos or stability)
stability/instability in life pattern
physical health/disease
number of really good breakfast burritos or grilled cheese sandwiches eaten in the last 60 days
etc.

So fairly straightforward. Except people underestimate breakfast burritos and grilled cheese sandwiches.]]>
General Dharma Discussions Sun, 16 Sep 2018 18:12:14 -0400
Lets get clear about Final Awakening - by: Andromeda http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109907 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109907 General Dharma Discussions Sun, 16 Sep 2018 17:30:45 -0400 Lets get clear about Final Awakening - by: shargrol http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109906 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109906
There are certain insights that are truly sequential, i.e., developmental, i.e. depending on previous insights.. While those insights are sequential and therefore fairly universal, the quality/depth of transformation from those insights vary by individual.]]>
General Dharma Discussions Sun, 16 Sep 2018 17:17:33 -0400
Lets get clear about Final Awakening - by: Laurel Carrington http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109905 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109905 en route, but that at the outer limits of the thing (as Daniel would say :lol: ) it’s the same.]]> General Dharma Discussions Sun, 16 Sep 2018 15:35:22 -0400 Lets get clear about Final Awakening - by: Chris Marti http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109904 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109904 General Dharma Discussions Sun, 16 Sep 2018 15:19:36 -0400 Lets get clear about Final Awakening - by: Andromeda http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109903 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109903
"My own teacher [Kalu Rinpoche], despite my best efforts, consistently refused to engage these issues. When I pressed him on any of these matters, he would only say, 'When you understand, you see they are not different.' There is a great mystery here, no doubt, but I think it is the mystery of human experience and little is to be gained by trying to resolve these differences one way or another."]]>
General Dharma Discussions Sun, 16 Sep 2018 15:10:39 -0400
Lets get clear about Final Awakening - by: Chris Marti http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109901 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109901
But, but, but... is awakening basically there in similar form for everyone, or is awakening a product of how we practice? Is there one "kind" of awakening that's essentially the same for everyone, or are there multiple kinds of awakening that mirror our practice and theology?]]>
General Dharma Discussions Sun, 16 Sep 2018 14:51:21 -0400
Lets get clear about Final Awakening - by: Laurel Carrington http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109900 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109900 General Dharma Discussions Sun, 16 Sep 2018 11:45:52 -0400 Lets get clear about Final Awakening - by: Chris Marti http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109897 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109897
Maybe this is the "nature vs nurture" question for the spiritually inclined.]]>
General Dharma Discussions Sun, 16 Sep 2018 09:37:43 -0400
Awakenwtwork Participation - by: Chris Marti http://awakenetwork.org/forum/2-general-forum-topics/13669-awakenetwork-participation?start=75#109894 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/2-general-forum-topics/13669-awakenetwork-participation?start=75#109894
I pretty much agree with Daniel that technical fourth path doesn't make much sense. Most of what gets called t4P sounds a lot like somewhere in the domain of 3rd Path.

I agree with this comment. The distinction between the later stages of 3rd Path and 4th Path, what Daniel calls arahatship, are quite subtle, and yet vast.]]>
General Forum Topics Fri, 14 Sep 2018 20:22:21 -0400
Awakenwtwork Participation - by: Chris Marti http://awakenetwork.org/forum/2-general-forum-topics/13669-awakenetwork-participation?start=75#109893 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/2-general-forum-topics/13669-awakenetwork-participation?start=75#109893 General Forum Topics Fri, 14 Sep 2018 20:13:25 -0400 Awakenwtwork Participation - by: Laurel Carrington http://awakenetwork.org/forum/2-general-forum-topics/13669-awakenetwork-participation?start=75#109892 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/2-general-forum-topics/13669-awakenetwork-participation?start=75#109892 General Forum Topics Fri, 14 Sep 2018 19:10:22 -0400 Awakenwtwork Participation - by: Chris Marti http://awakenetwork.org/forum/2-general-forum-topics/13669-awakenetwork-participation?start=75#109890 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/2-general-forum-topics/13669-awakenetwork-participation?start=75#109890 General Forum Topics Fri, 14 Sep 2018 16:11:11 -0400 Awakenwtwork Participation - by: shargrol http://awakenetwork.org/forum/2-general-forum-topics/13669-awakenetwork-participation?start=75#109889 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/2-general-forum-topics/13669-awakenetwork-participation?start=75#109889
That said, I also pretty much agree that most of the other perfection models are extremely conceptual and not based in evidence. (Ken Wilber jokingly said something similar, along the lines of no one can become a saint or start a religion in the modern era, because there is too much evidence of their imperfection these days -- emails, videos, etc. :) )]]>
General Forum Topics Fri, 14 Sep 2018 15:42:25 -0400
Awakenwtwork Participation - by: Laurel Carrington http://awakenetwork.org/forum/2-general-forum-topics/13669-awakenetwork-participation?start=75#109887 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/2-general-forum-topics/13669-awakenetwork-participation?start=75#109887 General Forum Topics Fri, 14 Sep 2018 13:58:37 -0400 Awakenwtwork Participation - by: Chris Marti http://awakenetwork.org/forum/2-general-forum-topics/13669-awakenetwork-participation?start=75#109886 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/2-general-forum-topics/13669-awakenetwork-participation?start=75#109886
:P]]>
General Forum Topics Fri, 14 Sep 2018 08:22:31 -0400
Lets get clear about Final Awakening - by: Chris Marti http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109882 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109882
:P]]>
General Dharma Discussions Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:02:46 -0400
Lets get clear about Final Awakening - by: Andy http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109881 http://awakenetwork.org/forum/103-general-dharma-discussions/13672-lets-get-clear-about-final-awakening?start=75#109881 Vincent Horn on the Utility and Futility of the Maps: https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/8045096

Daniel chimed in to both agree and to provide nuanced counterpoint, as did Noah, and several others.The thread is a good indication of the growth that both Daniel and Vincent have undergone in the years since DHO started.

For example:
"V: When I first was starting out as a meditation teacher I answered this question by helping people recognize and move through the traditional state-stages of the early Buddhist meditative path (ex. The 16 stages of the progress of insight, the 4 paths, the 8 jhanas, etc.)

D: Which is just one very narrow aspect of the path. It is good to have grown to appreciate the vast breadth of the path.

V: I quickly realized this was a sub-optimal way of teaching because: 1) Not everyone can easily move through the traditional state-stages and have success with this approach.

D: Very true."



For me, after second path, the path maps did not match up so well with my lived experience, and insights have tended toward a more toward a Mahayana-esque flavor, and not so much in a Vipassana framework. Daniel points out that he attained "Vajrayana-esque results with methods that were relentlessly Theravadin."

A number of practitioners here have also leaned towards Mahayana/Vajrayana, having started with purely Theravadin practices.]]>
General Dharma Discussions Thu, 13 Sep 2018 14:48:23 -0400