Eelco's practice

Hi everyone,

I'll start by quicly introducing myself.
I am Eelco, 41 years on this planet. I have a wonderful wife and 6 children ages 2,4,7,10,13,14.

Over the years I have had an ongoing love/hate relationship with the spiritual side's of life, but somehow never was able to come to any prolonged periods of spiritual practice. As a young child after reading the wonderful tale of Henry Sugar by Roald Dahl I tried to do some meditation lying on my back looking at the light bulb in my room.(candle's weren't allowed at that age) and tried to do some Hatha Yoga from a book I found in my dad's library.

Played a bit with ouia boards in high school and was given a book on chakra's when I was about 18 something.
Then did some new-age like courses in bodywork(reich and alexander lowen techniques) which mainly hurt but did not provide insight or clarity. Trancendental meditation for a few months until my girfriend back then had a psychotic episode and died on new-years even when she stood before a moving train.

Got a pretty good idea of impermanence then and there... Went into some sort of depressed state for a while, followed a guru called Shantimayi around europe for a while, dabbled with bio-dynamic agriculture for a year, Aikido practice (off and on for 18 years) and at age 26 met my wife and figured I might as wel try the married and normal life for a while.. Was a punk squatter before then.(mohawk, drugs and everything).

In my searches got an education as a Shiatsu therapist 2 years ago, but remained working as a "nurse?" with mentally handicapt, autistic people with so called difficult to understand behaviour.

The last few years I have been immersed in some ascension cult like group(which I broke free from) and was heavily into conspiracy theories....

About 2 months ago I decided to take a year sabbatical. That is no tv, books, internet or too much outside stimuly in order to get to know me and what it means to be a human being called Eelco. Did that for about a month until I notices my understanding of medative practices was lacking. Or anyway gave waay to many doubts for me to really get into it. I was just sitting and trying to keep my attention on the breath.. I remembered then that a few years ago I did an experimental aikido/vipassana course where we would alternate betwen an hour aikido practice, anhour sitting meditation and half an hour walking meditation. The meditations where led by this wonderful almost 80 year old buddhist nun.

Anyway I decided to look on the internet for more information on vipassana and found Daniel Ingrams mastering the core teachings of the Buddha. I started to do some noting in my meditations and worked up to 2 sits of about 40 minutes until 2 weeks ago. Then i incorporated walking and now usually do 25 minutes of walking followed by 25 minutes of sitting twice a day. Between 5 and 6 in the morning and before retiering for bed.

This morning a had the house to myself and figured that I'd do 2 rounds of that but decided to start with just sitting and focussing on the breath. After my timer went of I felt relaxed and continued sitting. where about 15 minutes into that I got really restles and found myself opening my eyes and stopping the timer at 18 minutes...

I noticed before that near the end of my sits after the walking meditation I am really struggling to get to the end of the timeslot I had set for meditating and more then once found myself breaking of the meditation just around the 18 to 22 minute mark. I am wondering where this dip in attention comes from...

Anyway thats it for now.
WIth Love
Eelco

This morning 25 minutes of walking. And 15 minutes of sitting.
When walking I try to note heel up,front(foot), toes, lifting, moving, lowering, touching,stepping, moving(weigth).
Today the noting was predomenantly absent due to wanderings of the mind which I had trouble noticing. Also like yesterday evening somehow my steps are at times really unstable So that I need to adjust and sway my body just to keep from falling.

Sitting started out ok. I was able to focus on the breath fairly quickly, My hips didn''t hurt after about 10 minutes my son came down. As it was really early stil I send him back to bed, But I was out of it en when i stood up i noticed only 15 minutes had passed.

This was the first morning I meditated before I had a cup of coffee or anything. Maybe thats why i felt clouded and unstable? Need to wake up a bit first maybe..

With Love
Eelco

Welcome to the forum Eelco.

"catsquotl":1uto83ju wrote: Hi everyone,

I noticed before that near the end of my sits after the walking meditation I am really struggling to get to the end of the timeslot I had set for meditating and more then once found myself breaking of the meditation just around the 18 to 22 minute mark. I am wondering where this dip in attention comes from...

Eelco[/quote:1uto83ju]

Welcome Eelco!

It is good to build a habit of not breaking the sit when things get tough. If you have read about the stages of insight, you will probably already know that all kinds of unpleasant things will show up if you keep on practicing. Therefore you can also say that discomfort, struggling, negativity, low motivation and so on are signs that your practice is going forward. Keep on noting and don't forget to journal!

Antero

Hoi Eelco, welkom op het forum! Leuk om hier een mede-Drent te zien! (ik woon zelf in Paterswolde)
Good luck with your practice!

Marc

Thank you all for the welcome,

Just finnished tonights practice. In order to maybe make it a bit easier to sit for the 25 minutes I've set myself I switched walking and sitting around. Also I made the resolve that I would remain in the burmese position for the whole sit. Often I switch to seiza somewhere in the middle of my sit. For one because my hips aren't all that flexible yet. and seiza comes mor easily after 18 years of aikido with prolonged seiza sessions.. Anyway right after the resolve was made my left hip started to make itself know with that all familiar sting. Keeping with the breath.. Sometimes noting pain, and encouraging myself.."You can sit through this also" Time really flew by. At some point i was getting really close to moving (just the fear of more pain from that initial position) kept me seated. At that point it felt like only ten minutes or so had passed. Can you imagine my relief when the bell rung only a few minutes later? So some joy of aclompishment arose.

I stood up for the walking part. I was fairly able to keep my being near my feet. There were some thoughts, but these passed quickly enough. I noted heel up, lifting, moving, lowering, touching, placing and transfer(weight)
I used to note foot and toes aswel between heel up and lifting, but the last few days that seemed to hectic. What was good to see that in dropping these last 2 notes I was more able to feel or be with the way my foot rolled from heel to toe before lifting..

What struck me as most "insightfull" this walking session was that usually when I get fatiged during walking. I get some burning sensations in my eyes. My sight blurs a bit and my movement becomes less coordinated. I usualy have to stand still and breath for a while before going on or keep walking in a haze.. This time though these "fatiged"periods arose and passed on there own several times with a clear difference between fatige and more awake moments in sight, coordination and haze..

This morning I upped my time to 30 minutes of sitting and 30 minutes of walking.

Sitting first and making the resolve to keep seated does seem to work for now.
I also put 2 small pillows beneath my knees which made for a less painful hip experience. I was able to keep noticing the breath all throughout the sit. Although my mind wandered a bit here and there. I do notice that i feel the breath as well as noticing my thoughts, which suggests i need to go deeper into noticing one thing at the time instead of noticing breathing and thinking simultaniously. There is the feeling of slight disconectedness when i breath and thing or notice sensations at the same time..

Walking went ok for a while although i became a bit more restless 20 minutes in. ABout the same time i used to have trouble remaining seated. That said though it is easier to remain walking than it was to remain seated at those times. I feel like the act of stepping, stepping makes for lightly more diversion from the feelings of restlessnes that arise. As if the restlessness is less overwhelming than it is when sitting still.

With Love
Eelco

Last nights practice was ok. Sitting relatively painless for 30 minutes. somet thoughts but not much.I noticed though that instead of noting every breath sensation at times I was just looking at them without the mental notes. This did give rise to some thoughts of how I am practicing and if I am doing it right. Which then included thoughts about correct posture and such.. Walking was a diferent story however. Soon after I started my walking meditation I became extremely tired. during most steps i had to make gross corrctions to keep from falling over. The tiredness did not subsife and at the 28 minute mark i stopped. Having a smoke afterwards before bed I noticed how everything in my mind had cleared up. the tiredness and fogg dissipated..

This mornings meditation:
Sitting was ok. Still had some doubts about the way I practised and for the first 10 to 15 minutes my mind was all over the place. lost in thoughts and stories.. I became a little more quiet and aware towards the end. Walking went much easier then last night.

Somehow a few weeks in my practise it feels like some kind of "boredom" or automated noting has set in where even though i note the 6 phases of a step my mind simultaniously wanders... I haven't found the knack yet to minfully concentrate on just the steps and it makes me wonder if I either am more aware of the thoughtstream and thus keep seing the simultatious wanderings as wel as the steps because I am more aware or that my mind has found a way to circumvent my resolve to keep one-pointed on the steps..

With Love
Eelco

Hi Eelco: If boredom arises note it as "boredom". Same with "doubt". The practice of noting is done so that after doing it for a period of time we begin to see the impersonal in the personal and in this way are free from falsely identifying with what was never ours to begin with. If you're not noting in a wide open way (i.e whatever is coming up for you at that moment) it might be useful to begin doing so.

Hi,

two evenings ago I came home very late after work and decided to just sit for 30 minutes. After about 15 I noticed I was sleeping, so just went to bed. Yesterday a headache all day I did my morning meditation but when I got home after work (12.5 hr shift) just went to bed..

Did my morning meditation just now. sat and walked for 30 minutes each. I am stil unsure during my meditation on the speed of noting. I read several suggestions. from noting one thing every seccond to noting up to 10 things a seccond. Somehow I have this believe that i have to have acces concentration first so during my sits and walkes I seem to be alternating between just noting the breath which is on in and one out breath every 1 to 4 seconds. during which I do notice thoughts, sensations and/or moods. I note some of them, but nor all.

In walking as I use the 6 part noting at times I find I miss some. especially the lowering sensation between moving forward and touching. At other times there seems to be so much more to note during walks. from the sensations of rolling the foot on the front foot. seeing the front foot loose and just touching with the toes before lifting the foot all together along with the small sensations in my hips and upper leg muscles, knees and then of course the thoughts, the way i hold my hands and the way that my upper back is carrying my arms and hands which make them somewhat contracted or even painfull.

As I am planning to go on my first retreat at the [url:3i6paso7]http://www.vipassana-dhammacari.com/main_eng.html[/url:3i6paso7] meditation centre somewhere in febuary.I am reading and trying to incorporate Ajahn Tongs vipassana exercises, but find the way to touch various body points in such a structured manner a bit to forced for now.. Which gives rise to a whole stream of thoughts and how to meditate..

I am for now just glad i am able to keep my resolve to sit and walk for 30 minutes more and more consistently.

With Love
Eelco

Yuck, Seems that after writing that I am able to sit and walk more and more consistently for 30 minutes each has gotten the better of me.
Yesterday evening and just now all I see I a chaoticaly thinking mind. During sits I find that I am only able to notice maybe 6 or 7 full in and outbreaths. The rest is thoughts.

Now if it was just thoughts maybe that would be ok. You know seeing worksituations and letting them pass, but somehow as of yesterday my judging mind and my doubting mind seem to feel the urge to pass along there comment. So both yesterday and this morning I found myself opening my eyes at the 24 minute mark. Didn't even bother to start walking after that.

Anyway I did have an insightfull moment during my sit. something about a point where I could reexamin a particular past event, buit in writing this just minutes after my lastest meditation fiaco.. I can't even seem to be able to remember that..

Wow do i sound like someone whining about his practise don't I..

With Love
Eelco

This mornings practise was the near opposite of yesterdays.
Last night I didn't sit. And waking up at 5 this morning I didn't feel particlarly inclined to Go and meditate as well so I procrastinated a bit. Looked at some forums, Watched some explanation graphs vimeo video by Daniel Ingram. Took a seccond coffee and looked again at the DhO forum. There i saw this really lame but oh so funny video of a gay trying to explain and show kinhin and failing funny at the end which cheered my mood right up so started to sit.

I don't think i am able to write all the subtelties i experienced in my sit and walk this morning, but will try to highlight some of them.

During sittin I noticed a rithmic contracting and expanding of the space within. Does that make sense? At times where thoughts were more predominant The space was contracting some whilst when they slowed down the feeling of spaciousness began to grow in all directions. This contracting and expanding was noticable a few times..

Another thing that i noticed was how the way I noted or not noted or how hard i noted(as in how loud inside my head) I noted had an effect on this spaciousness aswell.

Then I notices how thinking, bodily sensations and noting seemed to be 3 parts of my experience Then I saw how some energy rose from my belly towards my right shoulder on the front and noticed it as a mood change. WHich to me is valueabla because I am usualy unaware of the mood I am in. (Guess I am the delusional type).

I also noticed how thoughts like how long have aI sat allready gave rise to the intention to stand up, look at the clock or move.. Which I didn't and then faded away again.

During my walk I noticed a feeling of clarity which lasted during the whole 30 minutes, whareas before I had periods of misty-ish sights. dullness of mind and such.
Biggest insight here was when I thought about how I inquered at Dhammacara vipassana centre yesterday for a retreat I'd like to do starting febuaru 17th how a surge of happy and expectational feeling swooshed through me. AT that time i just noticed how such a swoosch of expectant energy had within it the feeling of disappointment within it.

If I had to lable it I would say I was sniffing into mind and body territory with one whif of cause and effect.
All in all I feel pretty good about this mornings meditation.

With Love
Eelco

Nice insights Eelco! Indeed, you are seeing the cause and effect in action, good work.

Thank you Antero,

Last nights meditation was good.I can't recall any special insight, but was able to just sit and walk for 30 minutes eachs.
This mornings..
After reading a post by Lee G here[url:1actwnfu]http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/122865#_19_message_122865[/url:1actwnfu]
I started my sit with fast noting. At some mpoint I noticed again like yesterday that there seem to be 3 distinct aspects to my conscioussness at the moment. My bodily conscioussness, the part that is noting the experience and a part that seems to be a mental faculty, but which I cannot seem to describe. Its the part that thinks, but also observes and notices, but different than the part I am noting with.. Does that make sense? Anyway at some point i was able to see the expanding and contracting of the whole of conscioussness again like yesterday.

The faster pace of noting was fun to do and i could get a more frame like feel of moment to moment awareness. What was most obvious now is that I was able to note or lable more sensations as before. where i would try to keep my attention on the sensation I noted. say Rising or inbreath during the inbreath part of breathing where I would either note it once quicly for the duration of that inbreath or spread it our. RRRRiiiiiiiiiissssssiiiiiiinnnnggggg for the whole inbreath. not I could. do rising rising rising pressure rising rising over the course of a breath.
SOmetimes though it did feel a bit forced so I played a bit with different noting speeds.

The same happened in walking where the most predomenant insight was that the moment the heel is lifted is really just a split seccond. before thet it is still touching the ground and after it is up. A fact that I didn't notice before because I was attentive to the noting of the sensation of lifting the heel. which makes it far more complex and fills the mind for a longer period than the bare sensation of the heel coming off the ground.

With Love
Eelco

Funny how mediation times seem to go all over the place.
Last nights was old fashioned "not there" wandering and walking through haze and trouble seeing territory.

This morning slightly more awake. Managed to go through the motions and be consciouss of those. No special insights or anything just being. sitting, thinking, walking, noting.

Just now did a short extra sit. (20 mins) where I started with Ajahn Tongs method of noting.
Which is rising, falling, sitting, touching.
The touching part is alternating a small spot on your hips (between buttock and back muscle) t least thats where I tried to touch anyway..

I think I like that method. for now It seems that somehow your consciousness is "trained" to stay..(on the breath in and out) then expand (sitting. which felt very spacious) and then contract touching a small coin sized spot.

With Love
Eelco

Last night sat for 40 minutes. Just being aware of the breath. not much noting.
This morning same thing for 20 minutes. Due to the wheter my cats were inside and they cuddled up to me mauwing after 20 minutes which snapped me out of my meditation.

The just sitting felt really peacefull though and has me wondering. Can I switch vipassana and samatha meditation around? Will that get me some practice in both meditation methods? or will it cause me to loose momentum in one or the other..

with love
Eelco

My meditations, like life seem to go all over the place.
The last 2 days I have been trying to just sit for 40 minutes and stay mindfull of the breath. Part because someone suggested meditation without personal instruction could prove "dangerous" Part because I am unsure of my goal in meditation and part because I wasnt to learn to be able to sit for an hour. I guess that is my short term goal.

A longer term goal would be stream entry, I am just not sure yet how to get there.. About 10 years ago I made a formal resolution that I would not abandon my family in search for spiritual truth. In part because up until I got married 15 years ago I was all over the place in mind, body and what not. After my first 2 daughters were born I got into some spiritual mind wanderings and practises again. From that I noticed an increase in my wish to get away from it all. Before my mariage that is usualy what I did as I felt i needed to move on.

In finding the hardcore dharma teachings I find myself thinking about prolonged retreats. Sitting, walking and noting all day. At the same time I see me being the provider of a slightly bigger than avarage family and a father. Any which way I want things to be. I feel I need to honour my commitments..(which I enjoy doing very much btw)

So wondering about the paths to take, the meditations to follow and such I for now am sitting. As I noticed before just setting my timer for 40 minutes seems to conjure up a load of resistance near the end. And still I find myself cutting my meditations short. So for today I set my timer to ring at 20 then 10 then 5, 5, and another 5 minutes.
made it with relative ease.. I'll slowly be extending the periods between rings until i'm able to just keep sitting come what may for an hour..

As for noting? What are your thoughts. Is vipassana noting twice a day with an occasional 10 to 15 day retreat enough to make stream entry or more in a busy lifetime? Or would that just not cut it.
Are there arahants that made it whilst having worldly obligations and a lack of resources to travel across the globe to see and experience the being near enlightened ones?

It's not that I am afraid of a dark night. the stages of that as described in Daniel's book MCTB seem not that different from stages in my life I dabbled with numerous times allready. So that's something i think I can deal with under the circumstances...

WIth Love
Eelco

Hi Eelco,

If you like I could give you some instruction over skype or something like that. No cost - or I can write back and forth with you here. I would like to specifically talk about doing the noting technique and how to apply it properly and see if we can't get you moving along the progress of insight.

Regarding the question of whether you need to go on retreats, that's a big no from me. I never did and I managed to do quite well despite all the other normal life things I had going on. This is really doable and not as hard as you'd think.

I'll message you my skype account.

TTYL!

All the best!

"catsquotl":3r3h7il9 wrote: As for noting? What are your thoughts. Is vipassana noting twice a day with an occasional 10 to 15 day retreat enough to make stream entry or more in a busy lifetime? Or would that just not cut it.
Are there arahants that made it whilst having worldly obligations and a lack of resources to travel across the globe to see and experience the being near enlightened ones?
Eelco[/quote:3r3h7il9]

It is doable with obligations, work and the family. The key is to make your every day a retreat. Some kind of practice is possible every single moment during the day, it is only a question of adjusting your practice to the situation at hand.

Thanks for your reply's. Its good to hear its doable...

MuMuWu thank you for your offer.
I'll see if I can get the hang of skype and look you up.

WIth Love
Eelco

this morning
38 minutes. I had set the bels for 20,10,10,5 minutes.
Last night I sat with relative ease althoughI did change posture once I sat through all of it with relative ease.
I even recal some feeling of profound insight. Although I cannot remember it now.

Anyway this recent morning sit was a struglle. Thoughts all the way through. filled with intentions to get up and do outher things. Which I gave into at 38 minutes.
So for the moment this will be my practise. Sit and focus on the breath.

I get the feeling that the noting practise I did somehow kept my mind busy enough maybe even sepparated enough to not mind the just sitting, but now that I let go of noting my mind frantically jumps around to get me to let it do something.

WIth Love
Eelco

Eelco, you aren't trying to control the mind with this practice. I find it most fruitful to let it jump around - that's what it does. Your job is to note what it is jumping to. You aren't aiming to look at particular things, or really force it onto an object - noting is all about seeing attention move about on it's own and the nanas are all about how that attention is moving and how that changes.

Let it move and each time it moves label what it moves to. Let that dictate the pace of your noting. You'll get to a point where it moves so fast you cant' keep up, but until then, try to get a feel of it moving from one thing to another (without directing it in any way).

It does help, to start out with some object so you can catch the first few movements, then just follow them.

All the best,
Jayson

So last night and this morning I enforced the resolution to sit until the 45 minutes were up.
And as suspected I made it, but it felt forced/enforced. I was all over the place. struggling between just clear awareness of all the sensations to periods where I would get cought up in pain, restlessness and the like.
Both sits ended with the last 5 to 10 minutes changing my posture from burmese to seiza.. Thought were on a rampage within, I wasn't very goog at just letting them be but even in ssing myself struggling through them they arose and passed away. Giving rise to new hardships...

What I did notice was that after the sit this morning, smoking my first sigaret and closing my eyes for a bit how much more at ease I felt. I was able then to notice the colours and predominant blackness behind my eyelids which expanded in some peacefull black spaciousness.. Odd how those few minutes felt so much more like I imagine meditation to feel like then the actual sits..

And so it continues....
WIth Love
Eelco

Feel like I am back at square 1.
Blew out my back saturday. sat saturday evening, but broke my meditation short dua to fatigue and some backpain.
Skipped yesterday monings meditations. Then figured going back to what I had been able to do. 30 minutes sitting then walking. The sit went ok, and I felt I was able to note pretty consistently throughout the meditation, with just a few side tracks into story territory. Then walking caused me to become extremely aware of the pain in my back, even though it had felt like it was loosening up and dissepating before a little. Anyway broke of my walking after 11 minutes.

Set my timer for 45 minutes this morning. but broke off after just 38 minutes...
Grmbl.

I know I should just stay put.
I'll try to keep from giving rise to too much disapointment.

WIth Love
Eelco

"catsquotl":1cl8yfex wrote: The sit went ok, and I felt I was able to note pretty consistently throughout the meditation, with just a few side tracks into story territory. [/quote:1cl8yfex]

Have you ever devoted a sit to simply allowing whatever thoughts and stories that would arise to arise - the only caveat being that you would note them?

An example (I'm going to just write whatever I see in the next minute or so - thoughtwise) - practice thought, image thought, future thought, practice thought, image thought, image thought, uncertainty, future thought, planning thought, practice thought, planning thought, work thought, self thought, practice thought, rest, rest, rest, practice thought, planning thought, image thought).

As you can see, I've come up with some simple categories and simply allowed whatever thoughts that would arise to arise and labelled them. It can be really fun, especially if you get more detailed with it, noting imagery, such as: skeleton, phone, moon, desert, telephone, keypad, phonecord, dinner plate, television, car, sky, woman, cat, clouds, fan, clouds, moon, tree, etc.

Pretty neat stuff. Kind of a free association/noting game that will really help you dis-embed from thoughts.