A Place to Discuss "A Strawman Model of Awakening"

Dear Everyone,

Over the last several weeks, AugustLeo and I have been collaborating on a strawman map of awakening. We are proud to present it here for your review and comments.

From the text:

"This is a strawman model of awakening. It's based primarily on the experiences, observations and understandings of both Kenneth and AugustLeo. Much discussion has occurred between Kenneth and AugustLeo to develop this strawman model. It seems to fit what we both know to be true for ourselves, and as such it may prove to be useful to others. However, as a strawman model, it is not intended to be substantial, fully formed or all encompassing. It's being presented to the Kenneth Folk Dharma community for review, comment and discussion, with the ultimate goal being to construct a more solid and unified model that can serve this community."

Bring on the discussion!

Kenneth

Thanks Kenneth and AugustLeo!

I am not sure of the memory base phenomena distinction. It seems to read the memory base phenomena is obsuring Awareness. This I can see because the dog arises in the gaps from memory, are we on the same page? I am not sure.

So to say that "Reality-based phenomena flow through consciousness as discrete and discontinuous events." does not mean you will neccesarily be concentrated to notice the stop and start of every single event, rather everything happens separately independant of each other ( and therefore experienced very differently).

This is interesting, thanks guys. I find it very useful to have these finer grained distinctions for 2nd gear type of phenomena as that's been my experience too so far, and it was confusing trying to figure out what shades and variations really map onto "the witness" and which ones don't. I wasn't sure what to make of states that were kind of witness-y in some ways but not others, which was distracting for practice, b/c I wasn't sure what changes I should make to practice if I didn't know where I was to start with. Still coming to grips with all that, but I think this will be helpful.

A few questions, hopefully not too pedantic...

- the cone in fig 2 is a little confusing b/c if you look at it from a top view, it's the opposite of fig 1-- personal consciousness is the outermost ring instead of innermost, etc. Is there any reason why the cone isn't standing on its tip (which would look more like fig 1) rather than its base? More generally, what are the sizes of the circles in fig 1 and 2 supposed to represent?

- could you say more about the distinction b/t real and memory phenomena? It seems you're using the word "memory" in a wider sense than colloquial usage, but exactly how is a little unclear.

- could you expand on the "solid/continuous" vs "discrete/discontinuous" distinction? e.g. "Reality-based phenomena flow through consciousness as discrete and discontinuous events." It seems you're talking about the phenomenology of 6th PoC here, but there are a lot of ways this sentence could be interpreted so the intended meaning is somewhat ambiguous.

- where does 3rd gear/rigpa fit into this model? 6th PoC? Or beyond even that?

- PoCs aren't necessarily accessed in progressive order, but strata of mind/jhanas/nanas are, at least at first (right?). If so this implies some difference between the PoCs and the strata they map onto. (edit: Or, it just implies some difference between how the strata are accessed in the "developmental" way vs. the "perspectival" way.) What is the nature of that difference?

@ brianm2: My wife had the same comment about the cone! The rings and the cone are just two different ways to conceptualize 'perspective'. Don't get too hung up on the concepts themselves. The rings are a 2-D way of thinking about it, where the 'wider' rings are intended to convey less obscured consciousness. The cone is a 3-D way of thinking about it, like walking up a hill you can see farther the higher you get. Other than that both are conveying a sense of 'view' or 'perspective' there's no other connection between the two representations.

@ garyrh & brianm2: about memory-based phenomena. It's my experience that at the Personal Consciousness perspectives the world and self that I experience are almost completely (and not consciously) memory or imaginal based, i.e., I'm not '˜present' and experiencing '˜what is, as it is'. As a practitioner's PoC increases through practice, he or she is able to be more completely '˜present' to '˜what is'.

@ brianm2: discrete/discontinuous relates to the characteristic of 'impermanence.' Reality (what is, as it is) is always there, indifferent to anyone's PoC. One's experience of reality seems to depend on one's PoC.

@ brianm2: about 3rd gear, Rigpa and the strata of mind, I'll save those for Kenneth.

General comment, it's difficult to put much of this into language, and even harder into concise written language, but still worth the try!

obligatory disclaimer: just trying to clarify things, not trying to be a pedantic boor.

"about memory-based phenomena. It's my experience that at the Personal Consciousness perspectives the world and self that I experience are almost completely (and not consciously) memory or imaginal based, i.e., I'm not '˜present' and experiencing '˜what is, as it is'. As a practitioner's PoC increases through practice, he or she is able to be more completely '˜present' to '˜what is'. "

hmm... but memory, imagination etc is also part of 'what is', is it not? Could you not be very present for any memory or distorted perception and see it as it is? I think I understand what you're getting at though-- I like to think of it as contents of awareness really presenting themselves as objects of awareness per se, vs. the mundane state in which contents are almost diaphanous, you see right through them without appreciating them on their own terms, they are kind of like intermediate steps or tools in a process of thought, means to an end rather than an end in itself.

" discrete/discontinuous relates to the characteristic of 'impermanence.' Reality (what is, as it is) is always there, indifferent to anyone's PoC. One's experience of reality seems to depend on one's PoC."

The image I get is that the 6th PoC is very choppy, like a film spliced with a lot of hard and abrupt edits, etc. That's one way of interpreting "discrete and discontinuous." But I doubt that's what you really mean to communicate. What possible interpretations of the "discrete and discontinuous" phrase are not in alignment with what you are trying to communicate? Could you sharpen the description to rule out some of these mistaken interpretations? I don't expect you to be able to say exactly what it is like, but you could perhaps say a little more about what kind of discrete/discontinuous phenomena it is not like.

"The image I get is that the 6th PoC is very choppy, like a film spliced with a lot of hard and abrupt edits, etc."

Yes. So far, in my experience.

"@ garyrh & brianm2: about memory-based phenomena. It's my experience that at the Personal Consciousness perspectives the world and self that I experience are almost completely (and not consciously) memory or imaginal based, i.e., I'm not '˜present' and experiencing '˜what is, as it is'. As a practitioner's PoC increases through practice, he or she is able to be more completely '˜present' to '˜what is'.

"

The "dogs" manner of existence is in relation to objects. This relationship is close to real time. so calling it memory-based does not convey my experience well. What objects are imagined to be changes with the PoC. Objects start off very solid and progress to being non-existant, with a merging of external and internal realities. This can all happen without being concentrated and therefore not being aware of the decrete detail of experience.

"Yes. So far, in my experience."

ha! shows what I know.

@ garyrh:
"... calling it memory-based does not convey my experience well. " I would have said the same, not too long ago.

"What objects are imagined to be changes with the PoC. Objects start off very solid and progress to being non-existant, with a merging of external and internal realities. This can all happen without being concentrated and therefore not being aware of the decrete detail of experience." Yes, well said.

@ anyone: I'm curious to see who else might experience these PoCs similarly, and how they would describe them. I'm also curious to see how others model 'awakening' based on their experiences, observations and understanding.

Thanks, all!

Great job! Thanks.

"@AugustLeo: "... calling it memory-based does not convey my experience well. " I would have said the same, not too long ago.
"

Therefore it maybe be better to use terms more easily recongizable in the PoC. This would assist those less familar in grasping the model.

"Therefore it maybe be better to use terms more easily recongizable in the PoC. This would assist those less familar in grasping the model.

"

Sure. We're open to any suggestions you might have.

"Sure. We're open to any suggestions you might have. "

The most noticable changes in a PoC are the "dog" and it's "objects".

Very quickly off the top of my head;
PoC 1 - you are the dog who navigates in an external world. The external reality is the cause of pleasure and pain.
PoC 2 - you are the dog but you now recognise external objects are not the only contributor to your pleasure and pain.
PoC 3 - you are the dog but external objects appear the same, happiness and pain are relative.
PoC 4 - again the dog but the all objects are seen to be the same. External reality becomes shakey.
PoC 5 - now the dog is looking shakey. You see it arise and recognize it.
PoC6 - no dog - no objects.

If anyone half relates to this I can give more time and thought.

"where does 3rd gear/rigpa fit into this model? 6th PoC? Or beyond even that?"-brianm2

3rd Gear practice directly targets the space in which all of the subjects and objects of consciousness arise. There is a situation in which there is no PoC per se, but rather Awareness recognizing Awareness without subjects or objects. That would be the purist form of 3rd Gear practice. This can happen many times in the space of a second, because it is simply what is left when one subject/object (s/o) packet has passed away and another has not yet arisen. The subject/object packets arise within this awake space and tend to distract us from noticing it. One of the fruits of enlightenment is the ability to remain undistracted even while the s/o packets are rapidly arising and passing away within the awake space of primordial awareness. In other words, it's possible to focus on ground rather than figure. This is possible within the 6th PoC. So, there is the discreet situation of the Absolute or Unborn, which is not the 6th PoC, but is most easily recognized from that place. This Unborn situation is said to be ineffable for a reason; it is not a little bit ineffable or quasi-ineffable, but completely and utterly ineffable. It can't be expressed or even understood. No one knows what it is because you can't go there. You are not in existence during that moment. Nonetheless, Awareness continues during that instant and is known by Awareness.

Also available within the 6th PoC is the recognition of the sense of knowing at a very subtle level. From this 2nd Gear POV, the knowing is not taken as "I" but rather as a fleeting "sense of 'I'" that is just another compound phenomenon, subject to conditions. To be in touch with this sense of "I", however, is to know sat-chit-ananda (being-consciousness-bliss) and is another of the fruits of enlightenment, highly prized in the Advaita Vedanta tradition. (cont)

(cont)

Practically speaking, the 6th PoC, "no-dog goes to dog park" is a wonderful place to live. This is the place of "back into the marketplace with help-bestowing hands." Having integrated body, mind, and Awareness, the yogi who can dwell in Transpersonal Being has no need to deny her own humanity. She has gone beyond the dissociative state of the Witness and is able to be with other people, manifesting compassion in a way that was not previously possible. From the 6th PoC, it's possible to have a disagreement without invoking the fight or flight response characteristic of the Personal levels (PoC 1-3) or the aloofness of the Transpersonal Self/Witness/no-dog of PoC 5.

"The most noticable changes in a PoC are the "dog" and it's "objects".

Very quickly off the top of my head;
PoC 1 - you are the dog who navigates in an external world. The external reality is the cause of pleasure and pain.
PoC 2 - you are the dog but you now recognise external objects are not the only contributor to your pleasure and pain.
PoC 3 - you are the dog but external objects appear the same, happiness and pain are relative.
PoC 4 - again the dog but the all objects are seen to be the same. External reality becomes shakey.
PoC 5 - now the dog is looking shakey. You see it arise and recognize it.
PoC6 - no dog - no objects.

If anyone half relates to this I can give more time and thought.

"

Gary,

Thanks so much! Would you mind taking some time and expanding on this a bit more, for all of us, based on your experience/understanding of the PoCs. I'd like to make sure I understand what you're writing.

Michael

Thanks guys for putting in the time and effort in creating such a model, a very arduous undertaking I bet. I'm sure it will be of benefit to many people. It seems to resonate with the Western, or human, need for simplicity, mapping, and coherence. Although i'm sure this model will evolve, this is the first step.

Would it be possible to map chakras and their relevance to this model? Could it be as simple as 'dominant energy center Root chakra correlates with Dog, naval/solarplexus with Owner, Neighbor/Bystander with heart, Witness with Ajna, Presence of Being with Crown'? Seems too simple is my guess but what do I know.

Btw, there's a pretty interesting map of the Direct path articulated very well here awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/...s-of-experience.html

Hi Mikael,

As you say, it is probably simplistic to try to force an exact correspondence between chakras and the perspectives of consciousness presented in our map, but it doesn't hurt to play around with it just for fun. Your model is good, but I would suggest a few tweaks:

Root, Sacral, and Solar Plexus chakras as a package correlate with the Personal realm (Perspectives 1-3, which are Dog, Owner, and Neighbor) as a package.

Throat chakra corresponds with Bystander (PoC #4)

Brow (ajna) chakra corresponds with Witness (PoC #5)

Heart chakra corresponds with (PoC # 6)

Notice the counterintuitive move back down into the body for the final phase of evolution, whereas all previous movements where upward. But this is the integration of mind, body, and Primordial Awareness, so it shouldn't surprise us too much when the body becomes involved again. Most importantly, this opening of the heart corresponds with the actual experience, a phenomenon that has been described by Ramana Maharshi, among others, and that also matches my own experience of how energy moves and develops within the body with time and practice.

Kenneth

I don't have much to add here, but I do want to say thank you for this. It clears up a lot of jargon confusion for me (the whole dog/no-dog thing finally makes complete sense to me!) as well as giving a pretty clear trajectory through the different stages of awakening.

Although I am not sure I understand the emphasis on "memory-based" phenomenon. Would it be fair to compare this to the "grasping" that is at the root of all suffering?

"PoC6 - no dog - no objects....
"

I like this - this is what I would refer to as, "Dawg-gone".

Sorry, folks -- I just couldn't stop myself...........

"Gary,

Thanks so much! Would you mind taking some time and expanding on this a bit more, for all of us, based on your experience/understanding of the PoCs. I'd like to make sure I understand what you're writing.

Michael "

Hi Micheal,
Thanks for asking .
I was looking for some feedback on whether what I said made some sense to you (or someone) with regards to the model. I have speculated my experience with regards to model mainly because I am not clear on "memory base phenomena". Kenneth has since filled it in somewhat and I can see I seem to be coming at things from a different angle.

Gary - thank you for helping to clarify the model/map of awakening (which I'm going to start abbreviating as MoA). This is the kind of interaction that we were hoping for!

Michael

"Hi Mikael,
As you say, it is probably simplistic to try to force an exact correspondence between chakras and the perspectives of consciousness presented in our map, but it doesn't hurt to play around with it just for fun. Your model is good, but I would suggest a few tweaks:

Root, Sacral, and Solar Plexus chakras as a package correlate with the Personal realm (Perspectives 1-3, which are Dog, Owner, and Neighbor) as a package.

Throat chakra corresponds with Bystander (PoC #4)

Brow (ajna) chakra corresponds with Witness (PoC #5)

Heart chakra corresponds with (PoC # 6)

Notice the counterintuitive move back down into the body for the final phase of evolution, whereas all previous movements where upward. But this is the integration of mind, body, and Primordial Awareness, so it shouldn't surprise us too much when the body becomes involved again. Most importantly, this opening of the heart corresponds with the actual experience, a phenomenon that has been described by Ramana Maharshi, among others, and that also matches my own experience of how energy moves and develops within the body with time and practice.

Kenneth"

Kenneth, your 'tweaks' to Mikael's suggested chakras relationship to this model fits nicely with the Daoist "Three Dan Tians."
Lower Dan Tian (located just below the navel area) represents Earth domain.
Middle Dan Tian (located in heart area) represents HeartMind domain.
Upper Dan Tian (crown area) represents Heaven domain.

It is at the HeartMind that Heaven and Earth meet. (Nonduality).
Roger Jahnke, a daoist practitioner and writer put together a nice conceptual framework that breaks these 3 domains down into 9 phases of Qi cultivation.
My point in sharing this info is simply to show the universality of Kenneth and Michael's model.

- Tina

"My point in sharing this info is simply to show the universality of Kenneth and Michael's model. "-Khara

Thanks for pointing this out, Tina. I was reading Ken Wilber's Integral Psychology recently and noticed that at the back of the book he has included a number of models, all of which are variations on this same theme and all of which share striking similarities. It's like having a bunch of individuals describe the process of developing from infancy through childhood, adolescence, adulthood, and old age. There would be some minor variations in the descriptions, but they would all share the essential characteristics and the basic progression of events. After all, we're just describing our own experience, and we're all human beings with much in common.

Kenneth