Hinayana, Mahayana or Vajrayana

...

"Which one is the true path to enlightenment?"


Choose one.

Stick with it.

Wake up.

A Theravadan monk once told me that each of these traditions were like the same cake with different icing. The "core" is the same, but the narratives, rituals or traditions are different.

What that meant to me was that I should focus on finding out what was core and what was just icing. Once this is clear, it shouldn't matter which path you use.

Kenneth Folk Dharmayana?


Hehe!

No , but seriously before I got path, I was of the opinion that the Therevada path was the shiznit and the one and only way. Now I feel so open to all types of paths and I keep seeing how someone could get "enlightened" (Aaaaaaaaaaag!) doing what they do. So now I am all for Theonethatworksforyouyana.

Om mani padme hung
Namotassa bhagavato arahato sammasambuddhassa
Praise the lord!
Hare Krishna!!!




Hinayana is racist,

"the question does not fit the case"...

"The true road to San Francisco" is different if you start from Los Angeles, New York, or Hong Kong. A 'yana' by definition has a base (starting point), a path (repertoire of methods for moving from the starting point), and a result (which may be described differently insofar as different yanas use different vocabularies).

The system they use in Tibet is kind of interesting. Correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I can tell the Tibetans have all three schools and don't consider them mutually exclusive. They just hold that any given practioner may need to engage in different teaching methods at different periods of their own spiritual development. I'm not recommending Tibetan Buddism, but that seems to be a level-headed and inclusive approach to the three schools delemma.

Which yana? According to Ajahn Brahm, we should try the Hahayana!

Check out this podcast by Ajahn Brahm and see what you think:
diydharma.org/which-yana-hahayana-ajahn-brahmavamso

Tina

"The system they use in Tibet is kind of interesting. Correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I can tell the Tibetans have all three schools and don't consider them mutually exclusive. They just hold that any given practioner may need to engage in different teaching methods at different periods of their own spiritual development. I'm not recommending Tibetan Buddism, but that seems to be a level-headed and inclusive approach to the three schools delemma."

Yes Vajrayana contains all Theravada and Mahayana I think the beauty of Vajrayana, which is relevant to people here, is that it employs Shamata and Vipassana practices like all Buddhist traditions but also incorporates Tantric practices that don't just work at the level of mind but at the level of energy and body as well; thus one doesn't have to go through the 'dark night' spoken of here, at least not in such a terrible fashion as those who simply observe what is happening without being active in the purification process.

Thanks for the input Mikaelz... its food for thought... I think i'm going to start doing Qi Gong again seems like another good way to smooth the cycles out with some energetic work. I appreciate Vajrayana but I dunno I find it all a bit too complicated for a simpleton like me, just gimme the maps and vipassana...

"Hinayana (Theravada), Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism all claim to be based on the teachings of Shakyamuni Buddha, all claim to be complete paths to enlightenment.

Which one is the true path to enlightenment?

AugustLeo

PS: What is truth? "

I do not claim to have any expert proficiency in the subject, however the Hina/Maha/Vajra yana split seems to have remarkable similarity to 1st/2nd/3rd gear teachings respectively.

1st investigation of experience and its basic characteristics, 2nd - who (the heck) am I, and 3rd - knowing (can't say I intuitively know/feel this one tho).

So whatever gets one to the desired final result is probably the right one. What the final result is ... well that is what we are partially trying to define here, right?

Andrew

What the Tibetans and other Mahayana schools call "Vipassana" isn't really the same techniques, or at least organized the same way with a map, as what you see in the Theravadan approach, per my limited understanding.

I have little or no experience with methods outside of thereavada. I feel that it makes sense to use some time tested insight methods from that tradition to get insight (wow radical I know) into the lower paths. With that momentum then it might be time to explore some of the more formless practices of the later vehicles... But hey what do I know i'm still pretty new too all this. I think vehicle chauvinism is one of the most embarrassing things as a psudo Buddhist to see in the international dharma community...

"I have little or no experience with methods outside of thereavada. I feel that it makes sense to use some time tested insight methods from that tradition to get insight (wow radical I know) into the lower paths. With that momentum then it might be time to explore some of the more formless practices of the later vehicles... But hey what do I know i'm still pretty new too all this. I think vehicle chauvinism is one of the most embarrassing things as a psudo Buddhist to see in the international dharma community... "

I agree in principle. I'm a Mahayana practitioner (a Zen priest) but I'm a big believer in "Open Source Buddhism" (hence my openbuddha.com site). For me, this is crossing the traditional lines, which developed for very understandable reasons, in search of truth and awakening. Wisdom isn't sectarian and, in the end, techniques that lead us to enlightenment are not either. This is a hard truth for a lot of traditional practitioners though.

Here's an interesting video with Dan Brown, a westerner trained in Tibetan Buddhism. I'm not sure the exact point in the video, about midway maybe, but he has an interesting discussion of different fruits of Theravada and Mahayana practice.
What struck me was the sympathetic description of the phenomenology of the progress of insight in Thera practice. It made me suspect he had either personal experience or close secondhand familiarity with Thera. This would indeed be an unusual presentation for an ethnic Tibetan teacher to make.
At any rate, he does an interesting job of bringing to light the contrasting phenomenology of different modes of awakening, without reducing the differences between paths to packaging.
Also puts it in some historical context. Interesting distinction between the early, wild forms of "essence teachings" such as Mahamudra, Dzogchen and Tantra, (all of which are different modes of Vajrayana), and the later forms which evolved in more settled, monasticized contexts.
And three cheers for open source Buddhism, by the way!
Jake

conscious.tv/nonduality.html?bcpid=46208...01&bctid=23850802001

right, there you go! almost forgot the link !

Thanks for sharing this.

" conscious.tv/nonduality.html?bcpid=46208...01&bctid=23850802001

right, there you go! almost forgot the link !

"

Great video, Jake! I haven't finished it yet, but Brown has already said a lot of good stuff.

About 8 min into the video, he says that the preliminary practices in Tibetan Buddhism are roughly equivalent, in a Western context, to psychotherapy. That makes SO much sense to me. No wonder so many people have a hard time sticking to insight practices on retreat. They never dealt with their personal issues, and now it's bubbling up to the surface and getting in the way.

Fascinating.

Jackson

Judism, Christrianity and Islam all claim to be based on the Abrahamic Tradition, all claim to be complete paths to Salvation.

Which one is the true path to Salvation?

Its hard when beliefs come into it

"

"

...

"

About 8 min into the video, he says that the preliminary practices in Tibetan Buddhism are roughly equivalent, in a Western context, to psychotherapy. That makes SO much sense to me."

Pretty insightful, right? I think at some point in this video he relates the well-known story about the Dalai Lama's confusion over a Western questioner's experience of "negative self-talk", or low self-esteem issues. It took several minutes of conversation between DL and his translator before he understood the concept! So perhaps we have, in some respects at least, different sorts of "issues" to deal with than did those of traditional cultures, yes?
The developmental psych perspective really sheds a lot of light on this, including the possibility that through normal developmental unfolding-- i.e., without intensive contemplative practice, but rather primarily through the natural unfolding of the felt meaning of life-experiences-- human beings have an innate potential to open into trans-personal insights.
I see the value of contemplative practice of whatever variety as learning basic skills and truths about ourselves in a streamlined setting which really take on life and power when applied in the wonderful mess of everyday life, the circle of day and night! This means, for me, dealing with personal issues too-- no, especially-- in the light of beyond-personal insight. This is the only way I know how to go beyond "Dealing with" them, to unlocking the creativity and clarity which are tangled in the patterns of narrowness and distortion.
Jake

"Great video, Jake! I haven't finished it yet, but Brown has already said a lot of good stuff.

About 8 min into the video, he says that the preliminary practices in Tibetan Buddhism are roughly equivalent, in a Western context, to psychotherapy. That makes SO much sense to me. No wonder so many people have a hard time sticking to insight practices on retreat. They never dealt with their personal issues, and now it's bubbling up to the surface and getting in the way.

Fascinating.

Jackson"

verrrry interesting. I've been thinking of doing ngondro for a while.. and now it makes sense why EVERY Tibetan teacher says that they are very necessary to do before starting 'higher' practices.

This also really says something about those who say that the preliminaries are not necessary and that only the 'high' practices are key.

On a similar note, someone who is a longtime practitioner of Tibetan and Taoist paths told me that something as simple as prostrations, which most Westerners see as unnecessary cultural trappings, are actually meant to open up the back channels so they are essentially Qi Gong.

That is crazy. The prostrations are subtle energy work. Tibetans--should have known... haha. I am watching the video but its loading really slowly. Good so far. Hey Jake, good to see your still around

"Pretty insightful, right? I think at some point in this video he relates the well-known story about the Dalai Lama's confusion over a Western questioner's experience of "negative self-talk", or low self-esteem issues. It took several minutes of conversation between DL and his translator before he understood the concept! So perhaps we have, in some respects at least, different sorts of "issues" to deal with than did those of traditional cultures, yes?
The developmental psych perspective really sheds a lot of light on this, including the possibility that through normal developmental unfolding-- i.e., without intensive contemplative practice, but rather primarily through the natural unfolding of the felt meaning of life-experiences-- human beings have an innate potential to open into trans-personal insights.
I see the value of contemplative practice of whatever variety as learning basic skills and truths about ourselves in a streamlined setting which really take on life and power when applied in the wonderful mess of everyday life, the circle of day and night! This means, for me, dealing with personal issues too-- no, especially-- in the light of beyond-personal insight. This is the only way I know how to go beyond "Dealing with" them, to unlocking the creativity and clarity which are tangled in the patterns of narrowness and distortion.
Jake

"

Wow, Jake. So much good stuff in that comment. Thank you!

Wow. That was probably the best dharma interview I have heard which didn't involve either Kenneth or Daniel. That guy talks about our path in a way more direct than 95% of western thereava teachers. Gotta give him props for that. Jake, have you read his book?