Kenneth on Wandering Dhamma

Kenneth is featured on the Wandering Dhamma blog today. Here's the link:

wanderingdhamma.wordpress.com/2010/08/29...itation-in-the-west/

Thanks for the heads-up, Derek. Brooke seems to be a very fair-minded and dispassionate writer-- as well as doing her research homework much more thoroughly than many. And she's certainly willing to wade into the roiling waters of controversy!

It is starting to make waves now.

www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5516

How come it's always the unenlightened guys who insist that it's a sin for dhamma teachers to earn a living? Can you say "crab bucket"?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

CRAB BUCKET!!!!!

Well said nik!

I tried to read through all three pages of comments, but I got bored.

All I hear is, "The Buddha said..." "The Tipitaka says..." "Ajaan so-and-so said..."

What if that's how the Buddha went about this quest lo those many years ago? It's frustrating that so many individuals can't think for themselves, even when the tradition they claim to adhere to encourages them to.

I'm incredibly thankful that some guy called "the Buddha" was willing to teach a systematic way to awakening. But that's no reason to deify the man and crystallize his teachings into impractical, conflated, and inappropriate beliefs and moral prescriptions.

Now I'm just venting

Jackson

EDIT: Removed unnecessary punctuation.

Fundamentalism = bad.

I'm glad the buddha wasn't a fundamentalist...

Got this in my e-mail a couple of weeks ago, from the Atlanta Soto Zen Center. The teacher there has dedicated his entire life--at least from the '60s onward--to the dharma. He personally built out the space he is about to lose, even designing all the furniture.

"This country's economic situation continues to hit the wallets of our members hard, and the impact on ASZC is brutal. Our unavoidable monthly operating costs (approximately $5,000) currently exceed our donations by in excess of $1,000, and the financial report through July (attached) shows a loss for the seven-month period of $9,500. ASZC is on the verge of being unable to pay bills as they come due. ASZC NEEDS YOUR FINANCIAL SUPPORT!

The current level of financial support, though wonderful and a statement of the benefits offered, is not enough to continue operations at Zonolite. The Board of ASZC is making this personal plea to each of you. In April 2009, we reached out with a similar plea and your response was wonderful, but as we moved into 2010 momentum waned, and we need to ask you to help us with another push.

We remind you that now is not the time to step lightly, or to think of 'doing my fair share.' The rules have changed, for many cannot contribute at all, and yet they desperately value our services. Now is the time to look at the priorities in your life and dig deep to support a wonderful practice that, in the words off our founder, can give you your whole life back.

You may donate by cash or check in the donation box at the center, via PayPal or by mail to PO Box 133241, Atlanta GA 30333-3241.

If you are in a position to consider a special gift in any form, restricted or otherwise, please contact Gareth Young at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it., tel 404 790-5536, or Michael Elliston at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..

In gassho,
The Board of Directors
Atlanta Soto Zen Center
August 20,2010"

I posted the above for a couple of reasons: For one thing, as is obvious from the letter above, the dharma is not doing swimmingly everywhere. It thrives in California and Massachusetts, yes, but the dharma center model is simply not replicable everywhere. Kenneth's online model is new and important. His big sin was in letting everybody know that there's a threshold: It's not sustainable for him to forego being an ESL teacher unless he brings in a certain amount of dana. He gave out the number and, as a result, is somehow a heretic.
Notice, too, that it's OK to ask people to give as much as they possibly can once your center is in deep trouble. People in the mainstream dharma world ask for dana all the time. Is Kenneth's real sin that he claims arahatship? I suspect that's really at the root of all of these objections. People want to believe in enlightenment--for the Buddha and the hypothesized ancient super-humans--but they can let themselves off the hook if they secretly believe it's unattainable for real people. Just a theory...

Whatever happened to this:

'Embrace nothing:
If you meet the Buddha, kill the Buddha.
If you meet your father, kill your father.
Only live your life as it is,
Not bound to anything.'

Sounds like a whole bunch of discussions about thorns but nobody is bothering to remove them!

Daniel's taking a bit of a hit as of late too:
theendlessfurther.com/?p=1853

Oh well...YAWN!

Mushrooms are pretty tasty

"Daniel's taking a bit of a hit as of late too:
theendlessfurther.com/?p=1853

Oh well...YAWN!

Mushrooms are pretty tasty "

Wow, that was strange.
Among other things that blog really shows how people, events, movements, etc. can be misunderstood and then the misunderstandings become the truth or the myth or the accepted story.

"
Among other things that blog really shows how people, events, movements, etc. can be misunderstood and then the misunderstandings become the truth or the myth or the accepted story. "

Yeah, it's always difficult when you're on the outside looking in. So easy to mistake things for what they aren't.

Well, I think all this stuff about money is pretty childish--Kenneth saying that what he needs to make (a reasonable salary, nothing big) is one of the more mature and honest things I've seen a teacher do. It's so obvious and normal that it comes off as radical, and hence some people won't be able to handle it.

As for Daniel: One of the interesting things about this critique--a weak one where the guy was just looking to criticize, if you ask me--is that he criticizes Daniel for not having a teacher. It would seem that Kenneth was his teacher, but from I recall he didn't allow Daniel to mention due to their disagreements about the dharma. If he had written about Kenneth it all might have sounded more kosher.

There's a bit of something like irony in there somewhere.

"I draw primarily from the teachings of the Buddha as they have come down to us in the various traditions, particularly the Theravada, and have trained under teachers from all the major Buddhist traditions over the last 11 years. Within the Theravada, my primary influence is the Mahasi Sayadaw tradition of insight meditation from Burma, and I have been given permission to teach by Sayadaw U Pandita, Junior in that lineage. "
--Daniel Ingram - interactivebuddha.com

Got it! So much for the critique and my armchair commentary about the critique.

I posted it because you were doubly right. I'm pretty sure Kenneth also taught him (see roots letter), or advised him at least.

A good example of the errors in the blog are the assertion that Daniel claimed "enlightenment" at 15 because he said he crossed the A&P at that age.
The guy doesn't realize that that isn't Daniel claiming enlightenment because Daniel clearly doesn't think that crossing the A&P means one is enlightened.
Plus, the author tried to imply that that story was Daniel's way of showing he is "special" which is also wrong because Daniel also clearly thinks that such stories are relatively common though often misunderstood (as it was with him for years).

For the record, Daniel had a great deal of formal training in Theravada Buddhism. I taught him the Vipassana technique I had learned from Bill Hamilton, Sayadaw U Pandita, and Sayadaw U Kundala. Daniel also had an ongoing telephone relationship with Bill Hamilton for years. Circa 1996, I taught Daniel the technique he credits for helping him attain 1st Path. And I was with Daniel, staying with him and his wife at their apartment in Chapel Hill, NC, giving him extensive daily coaching when he attained 2nd Path, circa 1997. Throughout those first few years of his vipassana training, Daniel and I spent many hours talking about the theory, practice, and nitty-gritty technical details of Burmese-style vipassana meditation and the Progress of Insight, which I had learned first-hand from Bill Hamilton, Sayadaw U Pandita, Sayadaw U Kundala, Sayadaw U Rajinda, Steve Armstrong, Steven Smith, and a whole gang of excellent but lesser known teachers, mostly Burmese monks. Daniel had no shortage of formal training and support and was an extremely dedicated and enthusiastic student. Armed with this solid foundation, he went on to read everything he could about meditation and enlightenment across a wide range of traditions including Theravada, Zen, Advaita, Tibetan, Jewish mysticism, shamanism, ceremonial magic; you name it, he studied it. He was especially keen on the Pali suttas and commentaries, from which he has read extensively.

Anyone who doubts Daniel's formal training should have a talk with him. I believe they will be more than satisfied.

For more on my own relationship with Daniel, read this letter I sent him in 1995:

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/Root...er+to+Daniel%2C+1995

Also see the accompanying thread:

bit.ly/a6WT81

Thanks for that Kenneth. I can't remember now how I came across Daniel's book. I might have found it on reddit or something, but via that (actually Daniel's site I think) I found you and everyone else here. I am eternally grateful to you both. Between the resources you and Daniel have both provided I have made progress on the path that is beyond what I would have hoped for.

Happy Birthday Kenneth (it's the 3rd here - 12:03am)!!

"Daniel's taking a bit of a hit as of late too:
theendlessfurther.com/?p=1853

Oh well...YAWN!

Mushrooms are pretty tasty "

Hilarious. But why not just watch Family Guy? Or read a good Vonnegut novel. Now *that's* funny, and intentionally so. I enjoy the absurd as much as the next guy, but prefer it coming from someone who knows that's what they're being. blah!
-Jake

I just took a look at this guy's blog. I'd be very surprised if he actually read Daniel's book. It's a long, detailed tome that requires a significant investment of time. The point of this blog seems to be, basically, "here's where I put myself above the whole hardcore-punk dharma thing, but with a lot of qualifiers and softeners so that it doesn't come across as too harsh." The author makes a point of insisting that he has no preconceptions, but my guess is that there was a generalized preconception about what the author conceived of as hardcore-punk dharma. The preconception was, "this is all basically childish and unnecessary, and sometimes gratuitous." Think about how many serious ideas are in Daniel's book: the honest look at enlightenment models, the discussion of the mushroom culture, etc.

Look, reading Daniels book changed my life. It didn't just give me some new information, it challenged me to go for something I figured was out of my reach. As a direct result of that a lot of things occurred and now I suffer sooooo much less on a day to day basis it is simply incredible. Also if it wasn't freely available ( as it is) I probably wouldn't have read it and I would be still struggling to comprehend a lot of things, still having huge amounts of daily anxiety, etc. The book works and therefore I must conclude that Daniel is the real deal and not only that he is someone full of compassion and hugely genuine. It takes much love and compassion to go out on a limb like he has and to continue to be as charitable and accessible as he has in the face of all this controversy. As for Kenneth, what can I say that hasn't been said. Coming in contact with Kenneth (again totally graciously, nothing even asked by him) has been a Miracle to me and the culmination of so many loose threads in my life. This sangha has provided me with a wealth of wonderful things, chief amongst them being some wonderful new friends along with finally feeling like I am part of a group of likeminded folks.

Thanks so much everyone.

"Look, reading Daniels book changed my life. It didn't just give me some new information, it challenged me to go for something I figured was out of my reach. As a direct result of that a lot of things occurred and now I suffer sooooo much less on a day to day basis it is simply incredible. Also if it wasn't freely available ( as it is) I probably wouldn't have read it and I would be still struggling to comprehend a lot of things, still having huge amounts of daily anxiety, etc. The book works and therefore I must conclude that Daniel is the real deal and not only that he is someone full of compassion and hugely genuine. It takes much love and compassion to go out on a limb like he has and to continue to be as charitable and accessible as he has in the face of all this controversy. As for Kenneth, what can I say that hasn't been said. Coming in contact with Kenneth (again totally graciously, nothing even asked by him) has been a Miracle to me and the culmination of so many loose threads in my life. This sangha has provided me with a wealth of wonderful things, chief amongst them being some wonderful new friends along with finally feeling like I am part of a group of likeminded folks.

Thanks so much everyone. "

PALABRA