Changes in daily life after 1st to 4th path!

Hello everyone!

I think it would be of multiple use if the ones who (preferable by kenneth or/and sangha confirmed) attained 1st to 4th path recollect and share what changes could be observed (how was it before how after?) in DAILY LIFE after each path.

There are plenty reports about the changes in sitting etc. but hardly in daily life experience.

1st path:
Example A: (describe situation/case)
Before: (desribe action or reaction or no action)
After: (-"-)

Example B: -"-

2nd to 4th path: -"-


Just what could be observed no judgements or comments needed. Please state also if your attainment is confirmed or not!

Everyone who also like to know about this feel free to out you! )

DISCLAMER: Please no judgements or comments from others about others experience! Intention is "No discussion just sharing actual experiences!"

Thank you so much!!!

I'm not exactly sure where I am at but I can tell you a few changes I have experienced:

1. Concentration increased tremendously at some point. Jhanic type focus and the ability to use it on a day to day basis has improved tremendously where as before it was only accessible under good meditative conditions
2. Ability to dwell as witness is tremendously easier than before. This is another tool which is good in daily life
3. Anxiety has decreased tremendously. Daily anxiety is no longer a big problem
4. Overall far less suffering, less of a tendency for negative thoughts to snowball, more humour, more outgoing
5. Cycling - Dark nights come but they are seen for what they are so it still sucks and is unpleasant, however it has lost a lot of it's bite. Each time seems to increase the ability to surrender to it.

1st path: I knew I'd done something big. I saw something that made it so my life could never again be the same. Daily life was pretty much the same. Stuck for a long while in the dark night.
2nd path: Major energy movements getting done. Felt like I was being reshaped. Daily life was very emotional.
3rd path: Things felt completed for the most part, but I was missing something. Major challenge was the golden handcuffs of the formless realms. Daily life was luminous and grand.
4th path: It felt done. It was right in front of me the whole time. Now feels like my job is morality and integration. No more getting dragged behind the dharma truck. Daily life is daily life, if feels normal, finally.

... thanks a lot!

Maybe i add one focus.

What changed after each state (or if unclear about where one is just in general) in relation to the various problems/tensions/discontentments/suffering one usualy was/is confronted with in daily life situations?

Like if it is/was observeable that the reaction towards certain thoughts or people or circumstances or ... which was usually combined with a certain degree of unpleasentness has changed!

"... thanks a lot!

Maybe i add one focus.

What changed after each state (or if unclear about where one is just in general) in relation to the various problems/tensions/discontentments/suffering one usualy was/is confronted with in daily life situations?

Like if it is/was observeable that the reaction towards certain thoughts or people or circumstances or ... which was usually combined with a certain degree of unpleasentness has changed! "

After 1st path and 2nd path, I felt less suffering right away. I felt like my ability to be equanimous with the crap within had increased substantially. I was experiencing a relief for the first time in years since I had started meditating. Having gotten over the pre-path dukkha nanas was wonderful. I felt much more centered. My life took on a purpose that it didn't have previously. I felt that what the Buddha taught was real. Seeing that the self was not permanent meant that a lot of my sheet dropped away. A lot of it remained though. . There were hard times for sure. But my overall happiness levels had increased by a hell of a lot.

At 3rd path, there was a natural aloofness or rather equanimity to all the mental and bodily processes so much so that it felt like the mind was radiant, clear and above all the misery. Much more peaceful and stable than 1st and 2nd path.

4th path: It leaves all the other paths far behind. There is nothing really that suffers now. Sure the sense of self arises, but it is just a pattern of sensations. Crappy phenomena still arise, but there is an intimacy with it that is hard to describe. What is suffering now? Happiness levels have gone out the window, seeing as now the happiness that is experienced is one that doesn't depend on conditions.

I am the happiest version of Nick that has ever lived. I feel my life is no longer a major struggle to be something. I am what I am. Things occur, and they just occur.

Ok lets get a little bit more precise.

Iam especially interested in 4th path experience (before and after).

OwenBecker
Could you please elaborate what you mean with: "now...my job is morality and integration" and "it feels normal"

Nick
Could you please try to describe even if it makes no sense or feels incomplete lack of words what you mean with "...intimacy with it...".
Suffering and happiness still arises but why do you not suffer because of it? How would you explain this? What is this un"conditioned" happiness? Start with what means "conditioned"? What gets conditioned?

I looking forward for a share of eg. cmarti (he talked already some about the change in daily life), claytonl, ihoma and anybody else who would like to contribute to help to get rid of this burdensome seperate-ism pragmatic/dogmatic/modern/traditional/hardcore/soft ... There is only ONE human nature!!!

The more detailed the better!

Hi Max,


Here is a good video by Alan Chapman from Open Enlightenment talking about some of what you ask about. I'll answer your questions later.

vimeo.com/14736532

Second path. Not confirmed. I recently had a powerful series of frutions followed by another big reduction in basic suffering and a new quality to my meditation. Not confirmed, but i'm talking to Kenneth this weekend and we wil see.
The big thing since then is also hard to explain. But, it's more of the same but bigger. the temptation to take an experience, identify with it and then think I have any power over doing something about it is just not happening as much. This reduces suffering.
the thng that is NOT happening that I thought would happen is that the "world" doesn't look any different, you know? same same same. The only difference is how I'm relating to my experience.

First path.
I guess it is confirmed. Kenneth pretty much thought it had happened before I even quite realized it and then he and I had a skype session in which I had frutions while we were talking so it started to seem very real. Also, i can tune into vibrations at all times, my sits start with A&P and I can induce frutions most of the time I try.
It's been a couple of months now so I have some perspective on what has changed.
First, I had an immediate period of just being in a really good mood almost all the time. this was nice, but passed of course. I remember writing that the way I felt was what I'd always wanted, which is interesting. there was no pain and a sense of just lightly going along in the world with no friction.
Since then my daily life is very different than pre-path though it is almost impossible to describe exactly how. what I can say is that my "self" is just way less involved in the world, has way less influence or power and something in me just no longer believes that it is possible or logical for a mike monson thing to get stuff.
One good way that translates in work. I have horrible hard days now. pre-path whenever that would happen Mike Monson would to do something about it. fix it. create a drama or a story to deal with the pain and the frustrations and fears and confusions. Now, most of the time. all that stuff just arrives, does its complete thing and then leaves. Gone. Then, I am free to just move on to the next object of experience. Make sense?

Nick
I will have soon a look! Thanks

Telecaster
I have also to stick to the DISCLAIMER! ... No comments in the way: "yes" or "no" "right" or "wrong" "i know" or "i don't" etc..

So please first no questions if someone can relate to ones experience or not. Even rethoric questions!

Thanks!

"Nick
I will have soon a look! Thanks

Telecaster
I have also to stick to the DISCLAIMER! ... No comments in the way: "yes" or "no" "right" or "wrong" "i know" or "i don't" etc..

So please first no questions if someone can relate to ones experience or not. Even rethoric questions!

Thanks!

"

dude, I think you are a bit controlling.
you should know that such responses, in me at least, makes me to not want to participate again in this thread.

WhoisMax,

I think you are more likely to get better participation and information if you explain what you are attempting to do. From a previous post I am guessing you might be trying to relate an existing model you have with what is presented here on the site. Your presentation appears like an experiment, very structured ( or controlling ) for everyday curiousity and practice.

Yes, I agree. Best to be completely up front and honest with everyone about your intentions, Max. I'm sure you would get more responses if you said exactly what is going on here.

This is just a guess, and maybe just paranoia, but this thread looked to me like someone doing some research and asking this community to help for free, albeit a little surreptitiously. I'd say this -- if you want to re-publish anything posted here you should really get permission to use what's said by the posters from the posters, and from Kenneth.

Kenneth, if you're watching this thread, we probably ought to have a policy posted here about copyright and who owns what. This place is ripe for getting cherry picked by outsiders. E-mail to follow.

Hi Max,

Some of the posters on the forum have wondered about your intentions with regard to the "Changes" thread. Are you asking these questions because you believe the answers will help you in your own quest for awakening or for some other reason? Some have suggested that your motive is simply to discredit the claims of the other posters. In that case, I think the other posters would be justified in feeling hurt or deceived, since you did not clearly explain you intentions in advance. What are your thoughts about this?

Thanks!

Kenneth

Hello Kenneth!

My thoughts: first I was irritated beginning with telecasters reaction. Then I analyzed until I understood the cause of the reactions. Then I considered how to respond. Then I was not sure how to respond because the readers have different levels of understanding. Too many thoughts ideas explanations to write down came up/ to select/choose some of them.

Yes they will help for my quest but its not awakening.
No intention at all to discredit anyone anymore.

My quest: To link classic and pragmatic language. I am still learning about the classic language (through asking others about their experiences - 'how it feels' 'what happens after this and then that'¦' 'cause and effect' 'step after step' (are all people (Asians) who use the classic scriptures language (btw I never read in English about these step by step maps they present and how they use the classic pali terms)) and until now it matches perfectly (its as if they could read my mind or look in the past and future of what I have observed or still see. As if we had seen the same movie.) with my recent observations. On the other hand many descriptions I read or remember having read seem to

cont.

point at the same reality. So a feeling came up that your resistance against the classic descriptions is just a matter of being not able to link it correctly to your language. So I want to check if my feeling is right and would like to ask so long back questions until I see what you see. At that moment that quest is solved/ the classic language is linked to your 'how it feels' language. One: I want to be sure we see the same thing and two: to link the languages.

Later I would like to offer to show you that some parts of the teachings which are criticised or excluded here have their sense making place are in the end not able to be excluded in order to complete the process (like you just started from a different point but eventually have to pass all other waypoints as well in order to come to the same destiny). But much about this is right now still in process/ I do not yet see the complete picture/ I do not see yet the complete past present future or cause and effect chain). It (may) will take me about 5 years (as my venerable grandfather said) to get the full picture/ to be ready to know how to guide others.

To collect more data I would also appreciate to have some skype sessions with some people here (writing is pretty slow and restricted). Eg. I can not yet link your jhana training and its purpose. So maybe someone would kindly offer to teach me that/ to introduce/guide through in order to link your language with my experience. For skype I have to wait until I have the needed equipment. Someone interested to work together in order to bring the dharma safety and complete to the west?

Fighting is a waste of energies and time! Teamwork dialogue is the key. We are all on one world!! Against whom you want to fight? For what reason??? Which aim you want to reach??? Please realise that we sit all in the same boat! Same suffering! Same world same human!! We are all brothers and sisters!

cont.

Cmarti: What do I want to steal and where do I want to run with it?

Ok everything has an end and mine is here for now.


Hope some of your questions could be answered, if i missed sth. important please tell me,
Max

Ps.: Please try to feel how I mean it! I know my grammar does not fit the standard!

republish: i am not sane i have enough work to do if i want someone to read i give them a link.

garyrh: funny, just reread and saw that your guess "to relate" matches with what i called "to link".

Nick: if i only think of lying or search for memories of it it makes me breath uncomfortable my throat closes! if i think of stealing (recently a habitual thought pattern about privacy (computer software) which never until recently was an issue for me - i downloaded illegal ,cracked, bought copies etc. caused me to experience unpleasant bodily sensations like getting no air etc.. so i bought the first time in my life software which i actually could get and use for free! i actually paid always for it (received bad karma).

garyrh: yes an experiment. not yet sure if wise or helpful. my more and more quick penetrating mind learned already a lot through your all responses so i continue and see what happens. if i see at any point its harmful i stop. i am also not sure if its the right time to go into dialogue. i do not feel having much data to contribute. but i see the data comes up during dialogue. so i dont know so you can really call it an experiment.

also to add there is now a slight difference to how i see things in compare to any previous post you remember.

Nick suggested "to open everything":
A few weeks ago i told kenneth that i am a monk in the thai theravada tradition. I was sceptical about his claims but open enough (joined the community) to give the practise he teaches a try.

Hi Max,

I quick summary, East to west then west to east. Broading the perspective by bridging cultures or teachings is worthwhile. Keep us up to date on your findings.

The only way you can deal with that doubt, is to either note the hell out of it and all other phenomena that take centre stage in the momentary experience of "Max" and see the results and/or set it aside and work your arse off by noting every moment of your waking life till you get what we, as well as Mahasi Sayadaw, call here Stream Entry. This was the only way I came out of the doubt that I had. THE ONLY WAY! If you keep asking questions about what our lives are like and how we have benefited from all this and do not note the hell out of every momentary experience of "Max", you will continue to doubt, doubt, doubt, doubt! There is no escaping the fact that the ONLY WAY to verify what we say is to practice like many, many, many yogis have done in the past, not just us KFD yogis.

People keep coming here not because of some guru worship, or to be part of a cool goup of people, but to gain instruction to practice and progress on the very same path that Buddha pointed to. They keep coming back because THEY ARE PROGRESSING and seeing actual tangible results. Just like I myself saw when I put my doubts aside and just practiced. And WHEN those yogis get it done too, THEN and ONLY THEN will they have their own doubt washed away as well.

Note EVERYTHING!!! And worry about jhanas AFTER stream entry. They are easier to access after the fact.
So now you know what to do. Whatever I tell you about my life can be seen in my practice notes thread. I have been pretty honest about how it has affected my life in all parts of it. Read it!

Bhante, practice your arse off, believe it can be done, gain a momentum in your practice, NO GAPS!!! and you wont be able to doubt no longer. There is no other way to know but to practice the noting technique till you pop!!!!!!

Namo tassa bhagavato arhato sammasambuddhassa