We still have 3 Gears: Easy does it.

We've hit 3rd Gear pretty hard on the forum lately, so it would be easy to lose perspective and think that 1st and 2nd Gear don't matter. That would be wrong. All the people we know who are having great success with 3rd Gear practice just happen to be master yogis with high level skills and attainments in the 1st Gear dimension. I doubt that's a coincidence. If you don't yet have 1st Path, that should be your proximate goal. Next is 2nd, then 3rd. If you have 3rd, get 4th. At that point, you will have a very strong foundation from which to stabilize the direct mode of experience. Can you practice the direct mode all along the way? Of course! Just don't abandon 1st Gear. Without that scaffolding of fundamentals, 3rd Gear is not likely to catch hold for very long. Do your homework, build your foundation. You will not regret it.

May you awaken in this lifetime,

Kenneth

Yes, I agree. Go get it all done (4th path) first then it becomes a piece of cake and just another thing to go, " Wow, I have effortless access to that too?......meh!"

Seriously, Get it done first cos its all hell easier

"All the people we know who are having great success with 3rd Gear practice just happen to be master yogis with high level skills and attainments in the 1st Gear dimension."

Almost exclusively, but not "all" as I have no attainment in 1st gear. Yet I am unshakabley certain that I have had signifigant success in 2nd and 3rd gear without attaining a path first. I can't explain how or why, but it just unfolded that way for me. I must say it has been very hard for things to unfold in that way though because the thought "where's the wisdom?" is always dawging me. If it wasn't so easy for me not to suffer, I would probably be having a really isolated and unpleasent life.

So yeah, I agree totally and completely that 1st gear attainment would be the way to go. And I can say first hand that if someone somehow stumbles onto attainments (or whatever you want to call them) in other gears without 1st gear attainments you will have a very very very difficult time expressing yourself and relating to others spiritually speaking.

Even on here at KFDh where I feel total acceptance and friendship I have been hesitant to start a practice journal because without the benefit of 1st path wisdom the way things present themselves to me is often so unusual I'd worry I would lose my credibility if I tried to described it. I'm not meaning to be hard on myself in saying this, but I feel like chimp who has been shanghaied from the jungle by NASA and shot into space. Without wisdom I am at a constant loss to fathom what I am directly experiencing.

The bottom line is I agree with "easy does it" ...If you are tied to a fence post in heaven there might not be any suffering in it, but there isn't any freedom in it either. Kenneth once said something like "I want people to examine thier own experience because I know that's where freedom is" I trust that, so I'll do that.

Thank you, Mark. This is very helpful for everyone, and I appreciate your honesty and your clarity. The package matters, and it's no free lunch; each of us has to come to freedom through his or her own efforts. The good news is not that it is easy but that it is possible.

Hello Mark,

It's fascinating that you are able to already have significant success practicing 2nd and 3rd gear, specially prior to attaining stream entry. My experience is that path attainment does wonders for one's concentration and certainly there is a sense of "freedom" that is gained that perhaps makes it easier for one to shift into 2nd (specially once one has certain mastery of going up and down the jhanic arc) and shifting into 3rd. So although both developments, it my experience, do not seem to be directly related to one another, I think path attainments and all the great stuff that comes with them heavily facilitates the shifting into 2nd and 3rd gear.
I also think that the idea of starting a practice journal is a great one, specially if your development seems to be non-traditional. Many yogis experience the same processes in slightly different manner and at different speeds and at different levels of intensity, so what may have come to a few as rather quickly or might have felt rather insignificant, others may experience at a later time and have felt rather important or paramount. For a while, I was really really hesitant of actively participating in the threads and discussions, mainly because my natural level of concentrations seemed uncanningly strong. It wasn't until I started reading Nikolai's threads (another, even bigger concentration "freak" (and he knows I mean it in the most endearing and flattering of ways that I realize that this community not only accepted it, but also supported it and nourished it as well.
Another great thing is that you will get valuable feedback from all the master yogis (including Kenneth) with respect to your practice (like I said, chances are more than one yogi here might have already gone through the same experience you are going through at the time). I was, for a while, a master of the compound jhanas (ha!) thinking that they were naturally showing (cont.

...when in fact I was reaching for them and picking up little pieces of them and mentally putting them together (without noticing). It wasn't until I wrote a thread about it that some master yogis noticed what I was doing and offered proper guidance and solutions to resolving of the matter.

With that said, I'm looking forward to reading about your exciting practice soon! Continue that practice of 2nd and 3rd gear but do not forget to continue pursuing stream entry and then higher paths!

Hi, from the perspective of an absolute beginner I totally agree. A lot of the first gear stuff is pretty wild for me, so only seeing conversations on the 3rd gear, while fascinating and inspiring, can be very intimidating. I don't mean this as a criticism, just an observation, but I think some new people are scared off by the high attainments. People are used to the idea that enlightenment is for the few, the proud, the brave not the average Joe. So stumbling on to this site can seem like a community of the exceptional, which it is, just not the way new members or guests might understand. If I wasn't so underemployed right now, and had a lot of time at hand I wouldn't have hung around. Maybe this keeps out the spiritual tourists who only want an occasional ego stroking, but I think it might also limit the number of genuinely interested seekers. My experience has been great and am very glad to have found this community, and again, this is not a criticism but some people may be intimidated away instead of using this as the wonderful gateway to practice that it could be. Thanks for all the help I've received.
Rev

I started my practice life with 3rd Gear experiences that seem quite similar to some of what is being discussed. For example, I'd go on a solo backpacking trip in the Smokies and just stare and stare at the silent forest until only the forest was left and there was this incredible peace and silence and lack of self. All of that went away. My access to it shrank progressively in a way that left me baffled. What happened? My current hypothesis--lack of scaffolding, lack of drilling down into/disembedding from the 1st gear stuff. And of course, these breakthrough moments turned into some kind of goal and became a priority--i.e. these were the "important sensations" I was after.
What confuses me is to hear people talking about the permanence of these states they've attained. Conventional wisdom in dharma circles is that everything comes and goes, pleasant or lousy, and that freedom is to be found in the eye of the hurricane. So I'm pretty much focused on working on 1st Gear rather than resting as the wave, at this point.

I used think "third gear" was just surrendering and I get that. I love that. Now I'm unclear on what it is but hoping to be open and surrendered to that fact that I no longer understand.

"I used think "third gear" was just surrendering and I get that. I love that. Now I'm unclear on what it is but hoping to be open and surrendered to that fact that I no longer understand. "

I should say that I might have no idea what 3rd Gear actually is. Overall, I'm less and less confident that I have any idea what I'm talking about, which is why I'm trying to post less, and practice more!

"I should say that I might have no idea what 3rd Gear actually is. Overall, I'm less and less confident that I have any idea what I'm talking about, which is why I'm trying to post less, and practice more! "

Dude -- ya gotta post. If everyone had your atttude there'd be no forum. Just do it in the spirit of exploration rather than being right or wrong.

I hear you. But I'm trying to look a little more closely at a couple of things. Am I posting/reading as a distraction, kind of the way someone would use Facebook, rather than with a sincere intention to learn/help? In cases where I'm posting or replying, do I actually know what I'm talking about or am I just opining for its own sake? Likewise, what is the intention behind the post/reply?

"We've hit 3rd Gear pretty hard on the forum lately, so it would be easy to lose perspective and think that 1st and 2nd Gear don't matter. That would be wrong. All the people we know who are having great success with 3rd Gear practice just happen to be master yogis with high level skills and attainments in the 1st Gear dimension. I doubt that's a coincidence. If you don't yet have 1st Path, that should be your proximate goal. Next is 2nd, then 3rd. If you have 3rd, get 4th. At that point, you will have a very strong foundation from which to stabilize the direct mode of experience. Can you practice the direct mode all along the way? Of course! Just don't abandon 1st Gear. Without that scaffolding of fundamentals, 3rd Gear is not likely to catch hold for very long. Do your homework, build your foundation. You will not regret it."

Without 1st and 2nd gear, its very easy to "defile" 3rd gear with one's tendencies/sankharas. In fact, its very easy to think one is in 3rd gear and miss it completely.

1st and 2nd gear provide insight/wisdom and awakened inertia needed to get the most out of 3rd gear.

"Without 1st and 2nd gear, its very easy to "defile" 3rd gear with one's tendencies/sankharas. In fact, its very easy to think one is in 3rd gear and miss it completely.

1st and 2nd gear provide insight/wisdom and awakened inertia needed to get the most out of 3rd gear."

Does practicing 3rd gear have benefits when going back in the other direction (i.e. does practicing 3rd when one can help the 1st and 2nd gear practice when you shift back into those)?

Also, do you think that using the lavalamp/killswitch/magnatz/lightning rod method (with it's built in feedback loop) greatly reduces the chances of you defiling 3rd gear with your own sankharas (when compared to some other method such as choiceless awareness)?

"Does practicing 3rd gear have benefits when going back in the other direction (i.e. does practicing 3rd when one can help the 1st and 2nd gear practice when you shift back into those)?"

Yes, everything is karma! Every single action has consequences. Even actionless action.

The ultimate consequence of 3rd gear (lightining rod included!) is perfection of wisdom/buddhahood.

Please define karma.

"
Please define karma.

"

One definition? Don't have one. I've seen several meanings in the scriptures:

- Law of cause and effect
- Activity/actions
- Inertia of phenomena

All refering to appearances and cognizable phenomena.

In the previous post I refer to both inertia and law of cause and effect. Both meanings applied to appearances and cognizable phenomena only, specifically:

1)
Cause: Actionless Action from Direct Perception
Effects: interruption of the 12 links/arising of effortless postive qualities/permanent ceasing of klesas

2)
Sustained Direct Perception generates inertia of the effects mentioned

"One definition? Don't have one. I've seen several meanings in the scriptures:

- Law of cause and effect
- Activity/actions
- Inertia of phenomena

All refering to appearances and cognizable phenomena.

In the previous post I refer to both inertia and law of cause and effect. Both meanings applied to appearances and cognizable phenomena only, specifically:

1)
Cause: Actionless Action from Direct Perception
Effects: interruption of the 12 links/arising of effortless postive qualities/permanent ceasing of klesas

2)
Sustained Direct Perception generates inertia of the effects mentioned"

I'm curious about your practice/religious background. You seem to have a voluminous knowledge of Buddhist doctrine/dogma and all the vocabulary (so much that you have ME completeley confused, which isn't rare )
Can you elaborate on your training?

APrioriKreuz, maybe I'm crazy but I'm partial to 21st century English. Karma is a very nebulous, very difficult to define and explain concept as far as I can tell. Referring to it in conversations seems only to confuse people. What do you see, you. just for yourself, that relates to the concepts you are referring to, like cause and effect? It seems to me that you are trying to say that acting in accordance with the flow of existence, thereby creating less resistance, causes less suffering. Yes? No?

I notice this in my own practice and life, btw.

"I'm curious about your practice/religious background. You seem to have a voluminous knowledge of Buddhist doctrine/dogma and all the vocabulary (so much that you have ME completeley confused, which isn't rare )
Can you elaborate on your training? "

Before buddhism: I read Krishnamurti and Eckhart Tolle and followed their instructions. I used to go to AA meetings too (the 12 steps is a spiritual path in itself).

Then I started practicing Vajrayana Buddhism. I've been under the guidance of Lama Yeshe Nyima (American Lama living here in Mexico City) since 2008. I always go back to Theravada and Mahayana sutras to clarify things though. Without basic principles, fundamentals, right view, etc., Vajrayana doesn't work.

I definitely don't possess the knowledge of a buddhist scholar, but I have been reading like crazy since 2008 (and practicing a lot).

I wish I had time to study Zen, Pure Land and hinduist traditions! But no, I don't really know anything about that.

I apologize for bringing too many concepts, words, terms from other traditions. I'll try to be as clear as possible

"
APrioriKreuz, maybe I'm crazy but I'm partial to 21st century English. Karma is a very nebulous, very difficult to define and explain concept as far as I can tell. Referring to it in conversations seems only to confuse people. What do you see, you. just for yourself, that relates to the concepts you are referring to, like cause and effect? It seems to me that you are trying to say that acting in accordance with the flow of existence, thereby creating less resistance, causes less suffering. Yes? No?

I notice this in my own practice and life, btw.

"

Yes, because when one acts in accordance with the flow of existence one ceases to arise.

The resistance you describe is reincarnating. So if one does not arise, there is no agent, hence no action. At least not samsaric action.

Direct Perception/3rd Gear/lightning rod accelarates this reduction of resistance.

"Karma is a very nebulous, very difficult to define and explain concept as far as I can tell.

"

Very difficult =/ I'll try to use english terms next time.

"Before buddhism: I read Krishnamurti and Eckhart Tolle and followed their instructions. I used to go to AA meetings too (the 12 steps is a spiritual path in itself).

Then I started practicing Vajrayana Buddhism. I've been under the guidance of Lama Yeshe Nyima (American Lama living here in Mexico City) since 2008. I always go back to Theravada and Mahayana sutras to clarify things though. Without basic principles, fundamentals, right view, etc., Vajrayana doesn't work.

I definitely don't possess the knowledge of a buddhist scholar, but I have been reading like crazy since 2008 (and practicing a lot).

I wish I had time to study Zen, Pure Land and hinduist traditions! But no, I don't really know anything about that.

I apologize for bringing too many concepts, words, terms from other traditions. I'll try to be as clear as possible "

I, for one, don't mind you using the traditional terms. Often the concepts are fairly in depth and english definitions lose something in translation. Pretty much all buddhist terms are up on wikipedia, and this is the internet, so I've learned a lot by looking up definitions for words I don't understand.

"Yes, because when one acts in accordance with the flow of existence one ceases to arise.

The resistance you describe is reincarnating. So if one does not arise, there is no agent, hence no action. At least not samsaric action.

Direct Perception/3rd Gear/lightning rod accelarates this reduction of resistance."

Hi Alex,

I strongly agree with your view on acting in accordance with the flow of existence and any resistance to the flow produces reincarnation. There is a fellow by the name of Juan Carlos Martino that describes this process (based on his view and understanding) to the T (he has a very strong scientific background and is able to illustrate his view on this way deeper than string theory allows for). I have a very strong scientific background and to be perfectly honest his view on the "mechanics" of the universe is simply flawless and follows a structure of pure mathematical perfection (interestingly enough, his model fits seamlessly with the pure practice of awakening we practice) . I will be more than glad to get you his info if you ever want to talk to him about it.
With that said, I believe that reincarnation (at least it's my impression based on all the other threads I have read in KFDh) tends to fall towards the dogmatic nature of the practice, and I'm not sure if discussing such topic (which trust me, it's one of my favorites! in here will bring direct benefit to other yogis who are focusing more on "pragmatic" practice. I think we try to discuss our experiences and their observable effect on our lives rather than focusing on elements that may not have a direct effect on the development of the practice. I know for a fact there are many yogis that do not believe in reincarnation and therefore may feel uncomfortable when one makes such strong assertions about a given phenomenon being caused by or the result of reincarnation.

Maybe it would be a good idea (cont...

...maybe it would be a good idea to start a thread (non-practice related) where people can express their thoughts and ideas regarding such topics without interfering with the pragmatic nature of the other threads. My most sincere apologies if I sound too much like a "moderator" as it is most certainly not my intension.

with metta,
JF