Villum's further mistakes

10 days of silence. I think it's time for a new thread. I believe i got 4th path on the 20th of december, though i could still be wrong.
Here's the old thread, with the link for the shift: kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/46...et=140&maxResults=20

It does seem time for a new thread, though. One of the central insights seem to be a love and a smile that wonders at the world, realizing that all these worries matter not - this moment is perfect. This still comes up sometimes, and ends for a while the wondering where or who i might be now - it is nowhere fully integrated.

The sense of self in the head, and around the eyes seem to come back sometimes still, but it seems to be very unstable and never seems to really convince me. The center point, the sense of being located in the middle of the head, seems to be sometimes there, and sometimes not. If i vipassanize it, it dissolves for a while.
It has seemed to me lately that both these parts of self have somehow become part of the insight cycle, appearing and disappearing as i move through the nanas.
Meanwhile, the self of the body, and the feelings, and a sense of being in the heart has become more prominent. There is still a lot of energy stuff going on, and i still get violent full-body-arcing kriyas when i ask "who am i", and sometimes seemingly at random. It does seem a lot of the time that i am in some sense done, that something has been completed. Then for a while i get caught up, and have no clue.

I practiced direct mode for a while, but it seems to me right now that there is something that has to resolved first. It seems instead to be time for some Mahamudra practice, some sutta jhana, some opening up and surrendering and doing nothing. I am not sure what it is that has to be resolved - it seems to be related to the heart, where a lot of energy stuff has been happening.

"One of the central insights seem to be a love and a smile that wonders at the world, realizing that all these worries matter not - this moment is perfect. "

Beautiful.

"There is still a lot of energy stuff going on, and i still get violent full-body-arcing kriyas when i ask "who am i", and sometimes seemingly at random."

I am getting the exact same thing lately. I find "Who Am I?" to be incredibly uncomfortable and my nervous system totally revolts. Are you sticking with this line of inquiry or just dropping it due to the pain? If you're sticking with it, has there been any benefit?

Interesting development Villum!

I had a lot of energetic momentum, which settled out by itself after a few months. It was actually a relief, as I had had really intense energy stuff, kriyas, etc for months and months. The shock type kriyas you describe in your previous thread were interesting to read about. My practice was quite different, but I hadn't heard anyone mention those before. For me they manifested as little (or sometimes quite big) shocks of terror. Reading your description was useful in contextualizing those experiences. I found I was very much intuitively guided in my continuing practice after that shift, and for me what was right was "just sitting" which was suddenly remarkably no different from doing anything else. There was very much a sense of feeling like a baby, not sure how the world worked. How fascinating simply to do daily ordinary things, endlessly fascinating. Each moment unfolding by itself. While at the same time a period of overflow momentum from my previously intensive practice carried on, with spates of "but, but, but? shouldn't I be doing something? but there's nothing to do? what do I do? nothing to do. how totally bizarre." Again, that settled itself out over several months. I also found myself after that becoming much more interested in self-inquiry, mahamudra and Christian mysticism, which all seemed to speak to my new perspective in ways they never had before. I found Adyashanti's book "The End of Your World" an extremely good read, also. And conversations with some more experienced friends were extremely helpful. Enjoy the beauty, the clarity, the peace, and the wonder.

Awesome! Very helpful descriptions villum.

@Orasis: I've only really used self-inquiry once, other than as a checking question. Some weeks before the 20th december, the answer changed from "Villum" to "God". It was this identity, which seemed to reside in the heart, that i explored on the day of the shift. i saw that it was impermanent, asking "who am i then", until i reached a point where i was everything. with a little help from muwuwu, this flipped, and i was no longer there. I'm not continuing with self-inquiry atm, as there currently seems to be nowhere to go with it. Also, as you've noticed, the reaction is rather annoying.

@giragirasol: For me, as well, the shocks have seemed to have a flavor of fear sometimes. Meanwhile, the sense of self, especially around the eyes seems to have the flavor of sorrow.

I've been working with direct mode in a somewhat undisciplined way, but trying to stay there whenever i remember. This requires acceptance and allowing of all emotions that arise, such that they can be seen properly as part of the whole. When they are thus seen, they cease distorting attention and are felt in the body - they are "grounded".
It occured to me today that there is a specific emotional pattern that i need to work on - avoidance/akrasia - the inability to keep doing something disquieting or unpleasant. For large parts of my adult life i have been caught up in patterns of avoiding problems that seemed somehow "dangerous". This pattern has caused me lots of suffering and given me lots of problems.
This is a form of anxiety/avoidance that when it comes up causes attention/focus to disengage and pull me away, looking for something else to engage with. While this is happening there is some disquiet felt in the body until another focus for attention is found, then a kind of absorbtion quickly develops and the body/mind calms down. This avoidance typically starts within the first couple of seconds of turning towards something that seems scary. It can be worked through with enthusiasm, mindfulness, sheer willpower (which seems to be a sort of forced focusing mindfulness) or social support. But as soon as these sources of focus and mindfulness weaken, the process starts up again.
I will be journaling my work with this every day for at least the next month, to help me keep going.

"I will be journaling my work with this every day for at least the next month, to help me keep going."

Epic!

Some spontaneous associations that :
a) may or may not be helpful to you (according to how you are wired, which activities you do ...)
b) I may or may not have already mentioned
...

1) Try reading and applying "Getting Things Done"
2) Get back to using the Pomodoro technique
3) Practice "strong determination sitting" (sit for half an hour for example and DO NOT MOVE)
4) Inspired by GTD: Just sit comfortably for a set time, think about the stuff that bugs you, the stuff you keep postponing. Decide what the very next action is you need to take (pick up the phone and call someone?), get up and do it.

If I come up with more of stuff like this I have used effectively myself to counter procrastination, I'll let you know. Good luck!

It seems i missed a day. However, i did manage to work through the problems for a while and get some work done. Awareness of avoidance-patterns is important, as is the direct mode practice which supports that.

About Direct Mode: When noting something that wasn't felt clearly in the body immediately, i used to note "allowing. So i would note: "Fear. Allowing.". Today, i have experimented with accepting instead of allowing. To me this seems more powerful and deeper. So i will note "Fear. Accepting", or "sorrow, accepting", or "panic, accepting". I accept oneness, inner life, confusion, resistance to grounding, effort to ground, and i accept "Avoiding."
When doing direct mode, it is also very important to stay in full body open awareness, with the Lightning Rod/Bridge and the "emotion body" present. When direct mode deepens, the emotion body will drain into the feeling of the physical body, but one still keep attention on the Lightning Rod/Bridge and be present in a full-bodied outward-focused way.

"For large parts of my adult life i have been caught up in patterns of avoiding problems that seemed somehow "dangerous". This pattern has caused me lots of suffering and given me lots of problems.
This is a form of anxiety/avoidance that when it comes up causes attention/focus to disengage and pull me away, looking for something else to engage with. While this is happening there is some disquiet felt in the body until another focus for attention is found, then a kind of absorbtion quickly develops and the body/mind calms down. This avoidance typically starts within the first couple of seconds of turning towards something that seems scary. It can be worked through with enthusiasm, mindfulness, sheer willpower (which seems to be a sort of forced focusing mindfulness) or social support. But as soon as these sources of focus and mindfulness weaken, the process starts up again.
"

I TOTALLY understand this. For me, this has been going on since I was young, and has been difficult to get ahead of.

I'm very interested how working with this goes for you.

Today, a little work, and much avoidance. Things are progressing, but very slowly. I have been working on the acceptance that there are things to be done, and wondering what it means to become the one who does these things. The answer seems to be a simplicity, as it always is. First, there is only the done, no doer or doing. To be present in the doing, at least at first, does not mean that things are not hard - there is yet a mirage called doer-of-something-else-instead.

Yesterday i felt lazy and sick a lot of the time. I try to stay in direct mode, but it seems somehow that i've lost the knack of it. Continuing anyways. I've adopted part of the Pomodoro technique, in that i say "now i'll work for 30 minutes", and set a timer. Got 2 of those yesterday, which is an improvement over how things have been going since new years. Direct mode helps see my tendencies to fleeing from the work, but it also seems to be generally easier than it used to. I'm guessing this is a 4th path thing, anyways, very happy about that.
This morning, i found a scary letter in the mailbox. Noted fear, avoidance, anxiety, sorrow. Then actually opened the letter immediately as i got in (this is unusual).

Direct mode links:
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/42...ear%3A+The+lava+lamp
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/42.../3rd+Gear%3A+Magnatz
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/42...ar%3A+The+Toll+Booth
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/42...A+The+Deadman+Switch
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/42...nd+the+Lightning+Rod
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/42...Tolle%2C+and+the+PCE
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/42...ears%3A+Easy+does+it .
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/46...rounding+of+emotions
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/44...set=20&maxResults=20

So, i had a chat with Kenneth, and we decided to do an experiment and see if the 6th and 7th stages are necessary to attain the 8th.
Beginning notes.
Ask: is it possible to meditate . if it is, you do some minor meditational manpulation. If it isn't, for now you've arrived at the goal.
Ask: Where am i in this picture, then objectify that.
How do i know i'm here. I know i'm here through a feeling. Feelings require roughly 1 second to be recognized, so: Clockspeed: When some selfing arises, try to keep the mental clockspeed to 250ms - in effect asking 4 times a second, of an arising impression of self: Who would take delivery of this. Emotion comes in packages 1 second long.

To clarify, let's keep "Damasio's distinction" in mind: we can distinguish between emotions and feelings. Emotions are actual events like observable behavior, chemical discharges in the brain, or the firing of neurons. Feelings, on the other hand, are the subjective experiences, as reported by the person having the emotion. Emotions are part of the organism's system for regulating homeostasis. In other words, any talk of "getting rid" of emotions cannot be taken seriously from a biological point of view: you will always have emotions, whether you notice them or not. But we have seen again and again that meditators report changes in their feelings, i.e., their own private experience of their emotions. Some have even reported not having any feelings at all, at least for periods of time. It is "feelings," not emotions, that take a minimum of about a second to come into focus. When the clock speed of the executive function or conscious awareness function spins up to about 4 hz, feelings as we normally think of them are not experienced. This is because a 250 millisecond executive function cannot take delivery of a 1,000 millisecond packet of feeling. And since ownership (one of the main components of selfing) is itself a feeling, there is no sense of ownership when the executive function iterates four times a second. When the habitual feelings of joy and irritation, etc., are no longer experienced, what is left is a deep, abiding sense of well-being. This is the flavor of enlightenment.

Along with ownership, the other major component of selfing is agency. When it is no longer possible to direct the attention of the mind, you are free, because there is no longer any agency. That's why I say that when you can no longer meditate, you are free. This is a very advanced practice however. If you ask the question "is it possible to meditate?" and get the answer "yes," then keep meditating!

To recap, and get the basics down. I have a target state (something like KFD 8 baseline). The practice is to stay in the target state or a fabricated facsimile of it as much as possible, and whenever i leave the target, do the minimum manipulation to return, or come as close as possible.
What i need, then, is the following: The ability to recognize whether i am currently i the target state. The ability to return to the target state. The ability to return to the target state we will likely need to split up into: The ability to return to the target state when it is close, and a scaffold of practices to return to the target state when it is not close.
I have a feeling for something that may be a reasonable target state for this practice, through trying out the idea of 4hz cognitive awareness. However, i will need to get this clarified. I also, of course, have a way to abide there.
This is a state of very fast flickering whole-body awareness, which makes it very hard to focus in at anything - Panoramic awareness seems the baseline. It may be possible to note mindstates such as nervousness, but it feels more like the note only gets to the tip of the tongue, and is then dropped.
I also need to take better notes when i talk with Kenneth, or record our conversations. But one other practice he mentioned, as meditation, when meditation is necessary: Abide in the sense of the wonderful Presence of the Self, bathe in it as deeply as possible, until it is seen as just pain. and dropped.
Anyways, i''ve just started working out a coherent set of practices to get this done.

Thanks for writing this up Villum/Kenneth.

Kenneth went over this stuff with me as well, however there were a lot of new concepts and I don't think I quite groked the subtleties of it / how to actually do it.

The executive agent, if I recall correctly, gives rise to the sense of being able to direct attention like a flashlight. The question I have is how to speed this function up while at the same time not feeling responsible for doing that.

I've tried a few things which seem to be doing that, however It'd be good to have more clarification so as not to wind up off on an unhelpful tangent.

Moral development, executive functioning, peak experiences
and brain patterns in professional and amateur classical musicians:
Interpreted in light of a Unified Theory of Performance

drfredtravis.com/downloads/Musician_preprint.pdf

"This study compared professional and amateur classical musicians matched for age, gender, and education on reaction times during the Stroop color-word test, brainwaves during
an auditory ERP task and during paired reaction-time tasks, responses on the Gibbs Sociomoral Reflection questionnaire, and self-reported frequencies of peak experiences. Professional musicians were characterized by: (1) lower color-word interference effects (Stroop
task), (2) faster categorization of rare expected stimuli (P3b), and a trend for faster processing of rare unexpected stimuli (P3a), (3) higher scores on the Sociomoral Reflection questionnaire, and (4) more frequent peak experiences during rest, tasks, and sleep. "

"2.3.2.1. Peak experiences during rest/relaxation. '˜'˜During practice of relaxation, meditation, or prayer, or at any settled, quiet
time, have you experienced a completely peaceful state; a state when the mind is very awake, but quiet; a state when consciousness seems to be expanded beyond the limitations of thought, beyond the limitations of time and space?''
2.3.2.2. Peak experiences during eyes-open tasks. '˜'˜Have you experienced that while performing activity there was an even
state of silence within you, underlying and coexisting with activity, yet untouched by activity? This could be experienced
as detached witnessing even while acting with intense focus''.
2.3.2.3. Peak experiences during sleep. '˜'˜During deep sleep, have you ever experienced a quiet, peaceful, inner wakefulness?
You woke up fresh and rested, but with a sense that you had maintained a continuity of silent self-awareness during sleep?''

"Ask: is it possible to meditate . if it is, you do some minor meditational manpulation. If it isn't, for now you've arrived at the goal.
Ask: Where am i in this picture, then objectify that.
How do i know i'm here. I know i'm here through a feeling. Feelings require roughly 1 second to be recognized, so: Clockspeed: When some selfing arises, try to keep the mental clockspeed to 250ms - in effect asking 4 times a second, of an arising impression of self: Who would take delivery of this. Emotion comes in packages 1 second long."

I think I sort of missed the significance of this particular bit...

If you can meditate you look at feelings and ask "who would take ownership of this"

The target rate for this would be 4 times a second (which I assume is something you'd build up to)

Re: Peak Experiences (in that there music post thang)

The practice i've been experimenting with today - an interpretation of the 4hz thing kenneth talked about - seems so far to be destabilizing and not particularly conducive to getting things done. This doesn't necessarily mean that it is the wrong thing to do, but it is very much an interpretation. I'm not sure everything is supposed to be flickering, even though it does seem partly to have the effect Kenneth talked about.
The part about not being able to get much done might come from me being tired and feeling heavy and lazy. However, experiments excluded, i will be returning to direct mode until i have a better idea of how to get this KFD 8 thing done.

A possible means of attaining something like kfd 8th, via the Conducive to the Imperturbable map: www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.106.than.html - Frequently abide in the base of nothingness, so that the mind requires confidence in that base, and it is eventually attained. Here, i equate the base of nothingness as an attainment to (guessing) kfd 8th, and as a state to the 7th actual jhana.

Instructions, so far: Listen for nothingness, relax into the unarisen nothingness that is an inherent aspect of perception. Listen, and feel the mind fall away. Listen, and let go of the doer. Ask, where am i in this picture, and listen for the nothingness inherent in that, See, without focusing, the nothingness in both the inner and outer worlds. The heart is nothing.
This is not the end of the path, but it might prove stepping-stone.

Combine with examining thought. Thought has no duration, does not last for even a moment, I am a thought. Thoughts have no true location, yet calling something "mine" is but a thought. Is there any effort here other than just more thoughts.

"Then again, the disciple of the noble ones considers this: 'Sensuality here & now; sensuality in lives to come; sensual perceptions here & now; sensual perceptions in lives to come; forms here & now; forms in lives to come; form-perceptions here & now; form-perceptions in lives to come; perceptions of the imperturbable: all are perceptions. Where they cease without remainder: that is peaceful, that is exquisite, i.e., the dimension of nothingness.' Practicing & frequently abiding in this way, his mind acquires confidence in that dimension. There being full confidence, he either attains the dimension of nothingness now or else is committed to discernment. With the break-up of the body, after death, it's possible that this leading-on consciousness of his will go to the dimension of nothingness. This is declared to be the first practice conducive to the dimension of nothingness. [...]

[He] considers this: 'This is empty of self or of anything pertaining to self.' Practicing & frequently abiding in this way, his mind acquires confidence in that dimension [of nothingness]. [...] This is declared to be the second practice conducive to the dimension of nothingness. [...]

[He] considers this: 'I am not anyone's anything anywhere; nor is anything of mine in anyone anywhere.' Practicing & frequently abiding in this way, his mind acquires confidence in that dimension [of nothingness]. [...] This is declared to be the third practice conducive to the dimension of nothingness."
MN 106: Conducive to the Imperturbable