Fasting

I had a discussion with a family friend yesterday who is a pastor for Church of God and I was mostly grilling him about fasting.
I'm just curious if anyone here has any familiarity with this sort of thing and what kind of experiences can be expected.
I am fasting today as an experiment to see for myself what happens if anything other than just being hungry:)
depending on the results I may consider a longer fast with more preparation.
Any thoughts about this?
I am aware that fasting is not necessarily "The Middle Path" but renunciation of all sorts seem to have their place depending on where we are in practice.. ??

As someone who has participated in fasting in the past, and is now an avid student of Asian medicine, herbs, and as much about physiology and metabolism as I can grasp with my limited background-- I'd caution that, although it is often engaged in for its psychological side-effects, fasting has profound metabolic consequences. If you're really knowledgeable about what they are, in general, and how your particular body functions, it might be an interesting experiment. Even then, I'd want some monitoring from an educated and objective observer.

Some of the 'cool' effects are similar to those of various sorts of intoxication-- because they stem from the same physiological distress. It has taken me becoming an old lady to even begin to give my body the respect due it. I wouldn't dream of enduring the abuses I put it through, if I had it to do over. And I've got to say, the type of fasting I did in the past is one of those abuses.

I imagine if the main goal is to remind oneself of renunciation, one could do it a bit like Lent - give up something desirable (sugar, chocolate, coffee, ice cream, television, steak, or some other luxury) for a period of time, as it would serve as a practice of awareness of that desire. This would avoid potential problems that might result from simply not eating at all or doing an otherwise severe fast. The Buddha tried harcore ascetic stuff, after all, and found it did not bring the answer he was looking for...

I also would point out (though this may not apply to you Duane, but I note it for others who may be reading) that sometimes our practices have a burdensome impact on others, which is not skillful. For example if you decide to renounce sexual activity and are otherwise happily partnered, this may be quite a burden on your partner; or if one takes on an unusual or complicated diet, it may be a burden on family meals or the person who prepares food in your household; or if one decides to meditate at unusual times of day or night it may be a burden on the schedules, sleep or play of others who live with you. It's always skillful to think of how your practice is affecting those around you. That doesn't mean not to do it, but just to take into consideration.

I think what one gets out of such an activity will be directly related to the mindset one brings to it. For example with fasting, I'm thinking of the traditional ways it has been used in different spiritual cultures, entered into with a spirit of purification. In this light I think it would be more powerful as part of a bigger package of short term practices. Say, one decides that one will fast until after dark today, and during the daylight hours one will also be silent, and be apart from others. Perhaps alternating short sits with long walks and gentle naps. And if one has anything coming up strongly that one wants to resolve or enter a deeper understanding of, this could be a cool way to do it, by setting aside a time and space that is completely devoted to what comes up. In other words... what's the difference between fasting, and just not eating?

Good points, Jake. And to the last question, I think there are many cases (I know it has been something I've done, though not frequently) where something like fasting or refraining from something is less about deeper understanding and more about a kind of self-punishment. Again, I'm not even remotely getting this vibe from you, Duane, but the subject matter brought it up. I see it in some people who go on one unusual diet after another, people who exercise harshly or excessively and relish the constant minor injuries or pain, etc. I did it with meditation at times, sitting more and more intensively whenever things got painful or unpleasant. It's just self-inflicted suffering, and it's not necessary.

Now that said, skillful and wise use of all sorts of techniques is a great thing so it's really about being self-aware enough to distinguish when you are working out your psychological crap in unhealthy ways and when you are exploring or deepening your spiritual development.

I did notice that my intent had a lot to do with how the overall "feel" of it went. Mostly I noticed it was a nice feeling to be able to use self control over something I normally don't think that much about. I had the same feeling from quitting smoking and still do when friends forget that I quit and offer one. I don't know that I'd say it gave me any deeper clarity or anything like that (which is what my pastor friend described) however I suppose I can see that being the case with extended fasting. It did make the desire for food stand out more which is useful (and I suppose that is a form of clarity). I don't know that I'm all that interested in going any further with that sort of renunciation though. And no, I'm not into self punishing. Not consciously anyway;) I'm just pretty new to the pursuit of a spiritual or intimate relationship with reality and am still feeling my way around to see what does or doesn't work for me. Ultimately my plan is to reduce suffering, not to create more of it:)

That's pretty sound advice I think:)

I had an interesting experience yesterday that revived the 'Fasting' topic in my mind, and thought I'd share it.

A couple times this year (yesterday being one such occasion), I noticed that my thoughts were becoming disorganized, and my focus and concentration were diminishing. I found driving more difficult than usual, and it became somewhat difficult to write cogent sentences - which is kind of a big deal, since I research and write letters for a living.

Both times, what finally tipped me off as to what was "wrong" with me were changes in the feelings of my body. I would lose appetite, and get an uneasy feeling in my throat and stomach. Tiredness was deeply felt as well.

It turns out that when this cluster of symptoms arises, it clues me in to the cause: anemia. As soon as I realize my red blood cell count is low, I pop some iron and B12 supplements for a couple days and I start feeling better.

However, the symptom that stood to me most was the disorganization of thoughts, which is experienced as a kind of boundary-break-down. It feels like I can't keep my grip on reality, like I'm losing my sense of center. This would be deeply disturbing to me, I think, had I not already had experience with groundlessness in meditation. Relaxing into this lack of self-cohesion is a fascinating exercise.

And then I thought about fasting. I'm willing to guess that fasting for prolonged periods must result in anemia in many, if not all, cases. I know this isn't the only reason why fasting can bring selfless insights, but it must contribute to it. It would appear that nutrition supports our ability to keep conventional boundaries in place, which is usually a good thing. But, in the right context, I guess changes in nutrition can lead to opportunities for insight.

EDIT/Disclaimer: For the sake of anyone who reads this forum, I want to make it clear that I am not encouraging anyone to intentionally become anemic for the sake of insight. Nor do I necessarily advocate fasting, as it is not a part of my practice. Nor am I discouraging fasting outright.

I've had some experience with fasting. I followed instructions from those who had done this sort of thing before. I did juice fasting. Fresh squeezed fruit juice in the morning; fresh veggie juice at noon. Both were diluted with pure water. And I drank as much water as I wanted during the day. Finally (or actually, firstly) each morning began with an enema. (Not my one of my favorite things, I've got to say.)

The cleansing and purifying effects of this regimen over the course of 3-7 days were amazing. There was a little tiredness the first day, but more energy after that. I felt light and clear. More sensitive, too.

The multi-day fasting was only done once per year. However, I also did a juice fast one day per week. Sure, it was inconvenient. But it also helped me maintain health and weight.

Mike "Gozen"