Recognizing your own difficulties

Interesting statement from Andrew Cohen, admitting some difficulties and taking time off:

andrewcohen.org/blog/apology

eta, my current favorite ritual for addressing inevitable creeping of spiritual pride/arrogance/sense of achievement:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litany_of_humility

Wow, quite beautiful, actually. (Edit: unless there is some underlying scandal we don't know about yet.)

I’ve understood this simple truth—that we all have egos no matter how enlightened we may be—and even taught it to thousands of people all over the world throughout my career. But when I was being asked to face my own ego by those who were nearest and dearest to me, I resisted.

Interesting...

I was half-way through the statement/apology when this ad popped up. I broke out in laughter. Bad timing on the part of the ad, I think.

One could pretty much guarantee there's some particular event that triggered the recognition. Presuming the apology is heartfelt, and not formulaic, it is a good response no matter what the circumstances, no? Lord knows I fall constantly into similar territory - not one to throw stones when others fall, even if their fall is "worse".

Guys, here is an interesting blog on this very subject. It includes an email from within Cohen's community detailing the 'messaging' that would soon be deployed to 'frame' these changes. Interesting stuff--
whatenlightenment.blogspot.com/

if i ever have to hire a pr team in order to manage my reputation and perception, please shoot me

@Andy: Same here, plus I got invited to a retreat in Tuscany. I could almost convince myself that I need to go there to get enlightened, that living in Minnesota won't quite cut it.

@Ona: The litany is amazing. Wow. I am far from living up to it. As to Mr. Cohen, I have read both American Guru and Enlightenment Blues, and have no doubt that this isn't just overdue, but barely adequate.

Ona Kiser wrote: if i ever have to hire a pr team in order to manage my reputation and perception, please shoot me

Word.

Sort of links to our discussions on the how to teach thread....

For me, there's a vast difference between teaching professionally, doing retreats, being well known, etc etc and coming up with something along the lines of "I have a special (or the only) method for awakening, and you can only get it by being obedient to me". Mostly because it's bullshit.

Dear Ona,

Messaging Incorporated would love to work with you on this exciting business opportunity. We have attached the following "forum post" as an example of the excellent product we can provide you for your personal Forum Posting Branding needs.

Your thoughts:

"Sort of links to our discussions on the how to teach thread....

For me, there's a vast difference between teaching professionally, doing retreats, being well known, etc etc and coming up with something along the lines of "I have a special (or the only) method for awakening, and you can only get it by being obedient to me". Mostly because it's bullshit. "

Our product:

"Indeed, it harkens to the other memorable conversation on didactic facilitation that entertained us so very much! Ah, such fond memories...

Engagement in a number of venue formats provides categorically different teacher-client interaction. Private life optimization sessions, extended intensive immersion workshops, and name-recognition (including Clout score enhancement) has a priori merit, especialy when considered in counterpoint to the heirarchally delivered guidance of uniquely effective pattern reconfiguirng and ahigh-standardization monitoring paradigm. Largely, because the latter is mammal-mediated graminoid digestion."

We offer pricing packages include both per-post charges or a ongoing account which will ensure your personal Forum Posting needs are met for a low monthly fee.

Act now!

shargrol wrote: Dear Ona,

Messaging Incorporated would love to work with you on this exciting business opportunity. We have attached the following "forum post" as an example of the excellent product we can provide you for your personal Forum Posting Branding needs.

Your thoughts:

"Sort of links to our discussions on the how to teach thread....

For me, there's a vast difference between teaching professionally, doing retreats, being well known, etc etc and coming up with something along the lines of "I have a special (or the only) method for awakening, and you can only get it by being obedient to me". Mostly because it's bullshit. "

Our product:

"Indeed, it harkens to the other memorable conversation on didactic facilitation that entertained us so very much! Ah, such fond memories...

Engagement in a number of venue formats provides categorically different teacher-client interaction. Private life optimization sessions, extended intensive immersion workshops, and name-recognition (including Clout score enhancement) has a priori merit, especialy when considered in counterpoint to the heirarchally delivered guidance of uniquely effective pattern reconfiguirng and ahigh-standardization monitoring paradigm. Largely, because the latter is mammal-mediated graminoid digestion."

We offer pricing packages include both per-post charges or a ongoing account which will ensure your personal Forum Posting needs are met for a low monthly fee.

Act now!

Beyond briliant. Hey.... I have an idea... I think we could make a lot of money....

I think there is an App for this. GuruMaker Pro, or something...

GuruMaker Pro could contain a bunch of great features:

-Enlighten-o-babble - great for explaining the mysteries of enlightenment.
-Rule-o-rama - comes up with arbitrary rules for disciples to follow, with suggested punishments for infringement. Free year of legal support if you purchase before July 2013!
-Guru-tron - comes up with arbitrary guru-rific behaviors for you to pursue; can be set to change weekly, monthly or annually for variable consistency. Keep your disciples on their toes!
-iTeach 2.0 - generates fresh exciting teachings on a daily, weekly or monthly basis. Choose teachings that relate to your rules or behaviors, or just set to "Arbitrary" for that cutting edge feel.

-and as a bonus offer, a six month subscription to Messaging Incorporated's PR services!

It's so affirming to see that others cannot resist snark, in the face of straining "not to throw stones."

Fact is, Cohen has always been Exhibit B in why the "guru idea" transposed to an incoherent commercial society is appallingly bad. Exhibit A (in my eyes) was Adi Da; for others, it would have been Rajneesh, or "Zen Master Rama."

"Recognizing your own difficulties" does not inhabit the same universe as declaring oneself a guru/avatar/enlightened master. I don't think anyone here is in danger of pulling such a stunt-- we're WAY too far below the radar.

Another in the sadly burgeoning 'guru gone wrong' genre that I found intriguing and very worthwhile was Michael Downing's Shoes Outside The Door , about SF Zen Center and Richard Baker.

Kate Gowen wrote: It's so affirming to see that others cannot resist snark, in the face of straining "not to throw stones."

Fact is, Cohen has always been Exhibit B in why the "guru idea" transposed to an incoherent commercial society is appallingly bad. Exhibit A (in my eyes) was Adi Da; for others, it would have been Rajneesh, or "Zen Master Rama."

"Recognizing your own difficulties" does not inhabit the same universe as declaring oneself a guru/avatar/enlightened master. I don't think anyone here is in danger of pulling such a stunt-- we're WAY too far below the radar.

What if he actually had had a real change of heart? What if it was just the first and triggered a whole storm of gurus becoming humble? People do that sometimes. Apparently not in this case. The guru-babble generator was actually only partly in response to the Cohen story. I'd looked at some stuff about Adi Da the day before after a friend mentioned it in another context, and was astonished at the elaborate language. Reminded me of being in grad school, reading books about perfectly interesting subjects that were obscured by the most awful "look at me, I have a PhD" language. I had a thought for a while to specialize in re-writing books by anthropologists so lay people could appreciate the good bits without having to use a dictionary.

Does anyone remember the interview with a teacher named Jeff Foster -who talked about how he had been an arrogant fundamentalist to students in the past, and had had a change of perspective and approach. It struck me as very sincere and shed light on how things can go in those different directions. He gets into his teaching and how it changed, meeting people where they are, a bit in more detail at 1:25 in the interview, but it comes up intermittently earlier too. There's also some good stuff on "the Great Disappointment" around 1:10 I think.

batgap.com/jeff-foster/

An account of a former student meeting with Andrew Cohen a week or two ago:

whatenlightenment.blogspot.com/2013/07/m...ner-with-andrew.html

The account is skin-crawlingly vivid and insightful.

At this point, I'm ready to deconstruct "charisma" as a pathology that the ignorant are susceptible to worship. And to see "guru" as a role that makes for good stories-- WAAAAAY down the line-- but that don't offset the damage done. It took the Boomer crop of self-declared gurus to destroy any potential that might have been there, from the traditions. But it's done, the destruction.

Charisma is an interesting thing. I see it impact people's relationship to the Church - there are a couple of priests I've come across in person, for instance, who are handsome, energetic, great speakers, good singers; maybe they have books or CDs or a TV show on the Catholic channel... and they get this adulatory following of ladies (mostly) who are really more into the priest than into God. I suppose in these cases the medium helps some people access the message, but it also gets some people more excited about the medium than the message.

There was quite a disruptive period in our own church when the priests got rotated out a while back (there are four or five working there at a time, each with different responsibilities, such as to the school, the parish, the old people's home, etc). One of the ones who left was charming and fun and sociable. I heard people say how "good" he was compared to one of the other priests, who was quiet and bookish, for instance. Their valuing of his teaching and work was heavily dependent on his charisma and physical appearance. The new one is serious and formal. He doesn't grin and flatter anyone. He isn't really charismatic nor handsome. He's also a hell of a lot better at financial and administrative work, and spent several months cleaning up administrative chaos left behind by the charming guy and requiring more consistent and correct performance of everyone else in their jobs. Several people had tantrums and disappeared for a few months to sulk because they didn't want to have to do things a different way. He's a much "better" priest in terms of doing his job. But much less popular.

Jeez, reading up thread.... apparently I had a sense of humor at some point. When did the weight of the world crush me so? 

But Russel'ls GuruMaker app is genius. Add the modern functionality of different webcam filters (aura-plus, sparkly eye, passonate cheek blush...) etc etc.   ...and I think it is a million bitcoin idea!