Community == Sangha

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3 weeks 4 days ago - 3 weeks 4 days ago #114770 by Tom Otvos
As I endeavour to re-engage here, the following showed up in my email today from an indie community "guru":

Everything you do.Every conversation you have.
Every idea you experiment with.
You are designing community.

The leadership choices you make.
The community model you decide upon.
The opportunities you seek out.
You are designing community.

Every person you connect with.
Or don't connect with.
You are designing community.

How you envision the community journey.
The paths you believe you can create, or not create.
You are designing community.

The principles you believe the community should hold.
The language you use.
The things you say, or don't say.
The encouragement you give, or not.
You are designing community.

The value you seek to create.
The people you invite.
The energy that is co-created.
You are designing community.

The opportunities you seek.
The direction you want to head in.
The choice of where to invest time, energy and money.
You are designing community.?

Everything you do designs the community.
☁️ Designing community never stops
☀️ As it grows it becomes more complex.

This is all direct and to the point, but it also made me consider that this is as much about sangha as "community building" and that everyone that participates in a sangha can take (some of) these words to heart. I am grateful that there are people here helping me design this sangha.

-- tomo
Last edit: 3 weeks 4 days ago by Tom Otvos. Reason: formatting

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3 weeks 4 days ago #114771 by Ona Kiser
Replied by Ona Kiser on topic Community == Sangha
I don't know if my experience is similar at all to yours, but I can think of two instances where I am involved in a 'community' (group project) in which I feel I end up with too much of the burden, or an odd parcel of the burden I don't want, or I wish others would contribute more or differently, or that they could just carry on without me while striving towards my own imagined goals.

Sometimes they can! Which can leave me feeling un-useful or excluded, ironically... Sometimes they have their own trajectory in mind, and I am only part of the trajectory, not the master of the trajectory.

In the case of one project it's been slightly (understatement! at times!) frustrating but also interesting to refuse to do tasks assigned to others even if they do them very slowly, and to never chastise others if they don't do things on the presumed schedule, and practice not being snarky or criticizing or even sending frequent reminders. If I step in and do this that or the other for the slow person, or prod the slow person, then I take away their job and give myself more jobs. If I don't, it may or may not get done, but it's not really my problem, and perhaps not really a problem at all. I mean in the sense that if the project were run very efficiently, it would do more good things; if it continues in a kind of slow mediocre way, it does some good things; and if it ceased to exist, life would carry on anyway. 

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3 weeks 4 days ago #114773 by Dusko
Replied by Dusko on topic Community == Sangha
If you see the Buddha, kill the Buddha.
If you see the community, kill the community.

:D Just kidding :D Communities are wonderful,  ... .... .... as long they do as I say :P :D 

Just kidding! :D ... ... but my view is undoubtedly the right view so ... ... just kidding! :D 

On a serious note, I hope my "bull in the china shop" persona is of more benefit than not for this lovely community. Please do feel free to smack me with a kyosaku if I overstep the line!  

BTW, I would love to say THANK YOU to all those older members willing to start posting some more so to gain a bit more inertia. Its like a practice, this community is :D You gotta keep pushing it until it catches fire, and then ... well then we need to unleash Chris Marti's moderation skills to calm stuff down a bit! The great leveler, that man is :D Bless you sir!

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3 weeks 4 days ago #114775 by Ona Kiser
Replied by Ona Kiser on topic Community == Sangha
I haven't heard from him in a while. How are you, Mr. Marti?

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3 weeks 4 days ago #114778 by Tom Otvos
Replied by Tom Otvos on topic Community == Sangha

Ona Kiser wrote: In the case of one project it's been slightly (understatement! at times!) frustrating but also interesting to refuse to do tasks assigned to others even if they do them very slowly, and to never chastise others if they don't do things on the presumed schedule, and practice not being snarky or criticizing or even sending frequent reminders. If I step in and do this that or the other for the slow person, or prod the slow person, then I take away their job and give myself more jobs. If I don't, it may or may not get done, but it's not really my problem, and perhaps not really a problem at all. I mean in the sense that if the project were run very efficiently, it would do more good things; if it continues in a kind of slow mediocre way, it does some good things; and if it ceased to exist, life would carry on anyway. 


That describes a key part of my job function lately, mentoring more junior developers. The difference is that if it proceeds too slowly or things don't get done, it is a problem, and it becomes my problem. Or maybe, I just feel that way.

-- tomo

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3 weeks 4 days ago - 3 weeks 4 days ago #114780 by Chris Marti
Replied by Chris Marti on topic Community == Sangha
I'm around but not participating much, 'cause work business.

BTW - the great thing about AwakeNetwork is that it doesn't require moderation.
Last edit: 3 weeks 4 days ago by Chris Marti.

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3 weeks 4 days ago #114782 by Ona Kiser
Replied by Ona Kiser on topic Community == Sangha

Tom Otvos wrote:

Ona Kiser wrote: In the case of one project it's been slightly (understatement! at times!) frustrating but also interesting to refuse to do tasks assigned to others even if they do them very slowly, and to never chastise others if they don't do things on the presumed schedule, and practice not being snarky or criticizing or even sending frequent reminders. If I step in and do this that or the other for the slow person, or prod the slow person, then I take away their job and give myself more jobs. If I don't, it may or may not get done, but it's not really my problem, and perhaps not really a problem at all. I mean in the sense that if the project were run very efficiently, it would do more good things; if it continues in a kind of slow mediocre way, it does some good things; and if it ceased to exist, life would carry on anyway. 


That describes a key part of my job function lately, mentoring more junior developers. The difference is that if it proceeds too slowly or things don't get done, it is a problem, and it becomes my problem. Or maybe, I just feel that way.


Well, it depends on the definitions of 'problem' right? There's like "someone might be mad at me" problems, or "people will die" problems, or "I'd be ashamed of myself" problems, et cetera. 

Me not showing up for singing in choir or making mistakes while singing can result in #1 or #3, but not #2. My colleagues in a project being slow can result mostly in #3. I'm slowly disengaging from #1 and #3 being motivators for anything. But that's me. #3 is easier to get rid of though, if one has obligatory social relations with grumpy folk.

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3 weeks 4 days ago #114783 by Ona Kiser
Replied by Ona Kiser on topic Community == Sangha
Just for which, that's one of the challenges with communities: not just how to invite (as the initial poem says) and attract people who will fit the community, but how to exclude people who are disruptive? Sometimes it seems rather organically self-correcting, sometimes not so much?

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3 weeks 4 days ago - 3 weeks 4 days ago #114784 by Chris Marti
Replied by Chris Marti on topic Community == Sangha
In strong, close-knit online communities with a common purpose and adult members, self-policing works pretty well. In large, diverse, multi-purpose communities strong moderation is typically required. I've had experience with both kinds. Awakenetwork is described by the former. The Time and Entertainment Weekly magazine message boards were like the latter.
Last edit: 3 weeks 4 days ago by Chris Marti.

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3 weeks 2 days ago #114801 by Dusko
Replied by Dusko on topic Community == Sangha

Ona Kiser wrote: Just for which, that's one of the challenges with communities: not just how to invite (as the initial poem says) and attract people who will fit the community, but how to exclude people who are disruptive


hm, :D to me this “who will FIT the community” is a dangerous thing. If we only try and find who fits we will close the doors to diversity and possible growth or development in ways we otherwise would not have known. I don’t care if new members don’t fit the general attitude of any/this community as long they are being generally respectful of others. 

Disruptive members; well if this means going against the forum rules , basically not being respectful of others, then there is this Ban Member button. I think banning for a limited time the first time is a good cooling off period. 

But I might be misinterpreting this whole thing :D Wurdz are hard :D 

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3 weeks 2 days ago #114803 by Ona Kiser
Replied by Ona Kiser on topic Community == Sangha
I was thinking of 'community' more broadly as 'groups of people participating in a common project' whether that is living together, repairing a car together, singing together or sharing thoughts about meditation practice together. In order for there to be any sort of 'together' there has to be some shared 'fit' - if I join the car repair group but I hate cars and all I do is stand around complaining or mocking the others, the 'together' isn't working very well, and it is disruptive. 

'Fit' is more important the more specific the project at hand - in a monastic group, there might be very specific system of practices, comportment and activities that you have to want to participate in with all your heart and be capable of practicing - otherwise it makes you miserable and disrupts everyone's practice.  Ditto in a singing group - even in a convent the nuns with no ear for melody don't get to sing in the choir, because it would sound terrible and it messes up the other singers. 

In an online forum that is not specific to any certain tradition or style of practice,  and certainly not requiring any particular bodily or mental skills beyond reading and writing English using a keyboard, and being generally polite, 'fit' is a much more flexible thing. 

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3 weeks 2 days ago #114809 by Dusko
Replied by Dusko on topic Community == Sangha
I guess it was me who missed the point. My bad :D (I love smilies) 

But yes, as I say to those Danish people who vote against Muslim burka on women “as long any person respects the actual law and is not doing illegal things, I think they have right to decide on their own fashion clothing” However Danes managed to ban that outfit as it made them feel uncomfortable. That’s Denmark for you in case you’ve heard only the good stories. 
But it does touch on this subject of members not fitting well into this Danish culture (for example). 

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3 weeks 1 day ago - 3 weeks 1 day ago #114819 by Ona Kiser
Replied by Ona Kiser on topic Community == Sangha
Denmark nearly never appears in the international news. lol. 

Foreigners who are wealthy tourists are generally happily welcomed here, but foreign immigrants are generally a bit strange to folks who aren't very used to novelty and even if they've been here a while (Jews, Japanese, Africans) there's still some discomfort, to my mind, compared to a place like NYC where everyone is a first generation immigrant and you can look really odd and no one even cares.

I'm still a foreigner every day. I stand out physically in Rio for being much taller and paler than most people and for wearing loose fitting linen dresses, which are not typical clothing here. Besides northerners walk funny - we can spot a Norwegian or American at 100 meters because of the firm, ground covering stride and swinging arms. A walk that says "I've got places to go, and I'm getting there." Locals walk in a kind of swaying slow stride, keeping their bodies quiet and not taking up a lot of space. Edited to add: they also meander. Further south where more of the population is of German or Scandinavian descent I fit right in, and I tell you it's actually relaxing. I'm aware of it if I fly through an airport in the south, just not sticking out feels really nice. That surprised me, the first time I noticed it.
Last edit: 3 weeks 1 day ago by Ona Kiser.

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