Opera's prelude

  • Opera
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7 years 7 months ago #94160 by Opera
Replied by Opera on topic Re: Opera's prelude

"Bill29ish":3uqqzyyt wrote: "I still think MUCH too much. Hard to just be in the moment, not washed over by swirling or obsessing thoughts. So I'm too far removed from basic sensations (other than thoughts)."

Hi Opera,

Isn't this itself a thought? If conceptualizing/thinking/ideas are a problem than how can you invest in the one above? I empathize though.
[/quote:3uqqzyyt]
Hmm, thank you.
I'll let thoughts be, in a more detached way. [i:3uqqzyyt]Taking in the phenomena for whatever it is, and leaving the content aside.[/i:3uqqzyyt] During sits, at least (since I disconnect them from the rest of my life).

"Bill29ish":3uqqzyyt wrote: But yo, what I really wanted to ask is what the picture is by your user name? I can't see it well, but it looks beautiful.[/quote:3uqqzyyt]
It's a Japanese Ukiyo-e from Hiroshige, 'Fireworks at Ryogoku Bridge'.

The first time I saw it, it was small too. In the top right corner, I thought it was birds. I would picture the white streak as a meteoritic self, arising, sharing with fellow travellers and then passing away, back to the ground from which a 'witness' was contemplating its own trajectory.

When I learnt they were in fact fireworks, it evoked bliss-out experiences, ligthing-bulb insights, taking height from pre- self-discovery worldview, and then, coming back down to the markeplace, or to the laundry, albeit upon which a different light had been shed, once the path had been ignited.

...


Ukiyo-e are woodcut prints, hence colors & shades can vary:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href=" www.google.fr/search?as_st=y&tbm=isc...m=isch&tbs=isz:l "> www.google.fr/search?as_st=y&tb ... &tbs=isz:l
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href=" www.google.fr/search?espv=210&es_sm=...BD%E8%8A%B1%E7%81%AB "> www.google.fr/search?espv=210&e ... 1%E7%81%AB

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  • Opera
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7 years 7 months ago #94161 by Opera
Replied by Opera on topic Re: Opera's prelude
[b:r5ee369q]Sunday, 29th, 20mn[/b:r5ee369q] (I was interrupted):

More sounds and lights than usual, some heat and lots of muscle tensions if I stopped to notice them. Little continuity of attention, 'slices' no more than 5mn-long I think.

The belly was, again, pretty solid and it was not comfortable, as usual. So, my anchor is not neutral.
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  • Bill29ish
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7 years 7 months ago #94162 by Bill29ish
Replied by Bill29ish on topic Re: Opera's prelude
Hey: Thank you. And thanks for the links. I think I'd like to order one for the house.
Regarding thoughts, work in whatever way allows you to be most open to your experience, but my experience is that judging thoughts is self-defeating, as well as illogical in a funny way. Or irritating way;)

Bill
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  • Opera
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7 years 7 months ago #94163 by Opera
Replied by Opera on topic Re: Opera's prelude
[b:2m6jrgln]Monday, 30th, 20mn, lying down after waking up[/b:2m6jrgln]
First ten minutes spent counting the breath, with good consistency. Next ten minutes: stopped counting; during the last 5mn I often got lost in thoughts.

[b:2m6jrgln]Monday, 30th, 30mn, lying down before sleep[/b:2m6jrgln]
First ten minutes spent counting the breath, with good consistency, up to 100 instead of up to 10. Next ~5mn: stopped counting, then I fell into torpor until a couple of minutes before the bell.

[b:2m6jrgln]Tuesday, October 1st, 25mn[/b:2m6jrgln]
I freaked out during this sit:

At first, it took me about 2mn to realize that I had sit down to meditate. Instead of counting the breath or of taking it as anchor, I decided to pay attention to whatever was coming up, since there was a lot, sights, sounds, tensions, thoughts.
Thoughts were not considered as disturbances from my noting: they would not take over the mind, and instead their content 'flew off the caption' as if blown gently away by the wind, and once empty, the 'caption' would leave too.
It felt nice, like a little insight. Well, some thoughts were still sticky, for instance: is it time to note the feeling tone of thoughts in my practice? As one way to disembed from the fact that the content of most of them -and, until the previous sit, my relationship to their rising- was negative.
The pleasure gotten from observing thoughts pass away as almost any other sensation continued for a while; then my posture felt a bit tense, tension rose in the belly and the chest, with contractions at the level of the eyes and things in the brain, nothing unusual. The pain in the chest increased, like if the heart was under heavy pressure. It had happened several times already in my sits early this summer. I decided not to intervene. But [b:2m6jrgln]the pain and the pounding located at the heart increased in intensity to a level that panicked me[/b:2m6jrgln], and I interrupted the sit abruptly (about 5mn before the bell).
Next, in the kitchen I had a slight nausea but did not vomit, then my head started spinning so I got on the ground to prevent from falling down/passing out. I didn't stay on my knees long though, maybe 20 seconds. Then I recovered pretty quickly.
But it reminded of a little bad trip I had say 5 years ago, from smoking hash (which I was not accustomed to anymore) with the usual accompanying alcool, in a little party at a friend's; I didn't feel well and passed out, and I got anxious enough to actually ask the firemen (here they can suppleate Emergency doctors for such things) to come over check me out!! I slept at this friend's place and noticed very erratic heart rythm, and started to anguish 'oh my god should i go to the hospital probably for nothing but strong anxiety, or should i risk dying of a heart attack in my sleep', that kind of thing, till dawn.

Soooo, yesterday, I had a frightening physical experience during a sit, and I'm wondering: [b:2m6jrgln]is this kind of symptom common or not[/b:2m6jrgln] (among meditators in the early stages)?
I don't have any known cardiac pathology, but I ve fell unconscious on occasions (like, around 7 times), often because of hypoglycemia, or strong skull massage!
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  • Bill29ish
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7 years 7 months ago #94164 by Bill29ish
Replied by Bill29ish on topic Re: Opera's prelude
Good to see you are getting results from your practice and that thinking is becoming more objective. I have had experiences of serious anxiety while meditating with somewhat similar symptoms, but not to the level you are describing.
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  • Opera
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7 years 6 months ago #94165 by Opera
Replied by Opera on topic Re: Opera's prelude

&quot;Bill29ish&quot;:38uhre84 wrote: Good to see you are getting results from your practice and that thinking is becoming more objective. [/quote:38uhre84]
Thank you: your pointer was one of the causes of the &quot;Mind&amp;Body&quot; sit (just watched a video about the stages...)

&quot;Bill29ish&quot;:38uhre84 wrote: I have had experiences of serious anxiety while meditating with somewhat similar symptoms, but not to the level you are describing.[/quote:38uhre84]
ok.

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  • Opera
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7 years 6 months ago #94166 by Opera
Replied by Opera on topic Re: Opera's prelude
[b:25vm4wid]Friday, October 4th: 30mn[/b:25vm4wid]
The plan was to concentrate on the breath, in order to avoid the painful experience I reported from rising again. Concentration was poor, I don't remember precisely the first half of the sit, other that I noted what came up, it did not feel great nor rewarding, but the sceanrio I was watching out for did not reappear. In the second half of the sit, progressively, [i:25vm4wid]the upper half of the body was felt as its enveloppe[/i:25vm4wid] (belly, torso (front and to a lesser degree back), arms and head. It was pretty agreeable. Satisfaction. It did not extend to the full body.
It reminded me of the forerunners symptoms of a probable A&amp;P event I had two years ago.

[b:25vm4wid]Saturday, 5th: no sitting.[/b:25vm4wid]

[b:25vm4wid]Sunday, 6th: 30mn[/b:25vm4wid]
Not very pleasant, from my memories. Usual body symptoms. Desire (to see thoughts properly again or to reach yesterday's state again). Had a much lighter version of yesterday's state at the end.

[b:25vm4wid]Mondday, 7th, 10mn[/b:25vm4wid] (sat on a bench after lunch)

[b:25vm4wid]Mondday, 7th, 30mn[/b:25vm4wid]
It was not so easy to count up to 100 without interruptions; in the beginning I noted sensations in-between breaths without problem, but soon the concentration went down. Nostalgia for the sit where I could observe the thoughts 'objectively'. The usual belly and heart discomfort rose steadily. Then, superficial tensions: facial muscles, muscles from the upper arms, and especially in the neck area. Tingling. The upper half of the body heated (I'm not sure about the chronology). Got impatient. So on.

[b:25vm4wid]Tuesday, 8th, 10mn[/b:25vm4wid] (sat on a bench after lunch)
First 5mn: reasonnable stability in following the breath. Then noted sights, coolness, wind, and some internal heat, interpersed with concentration-breaking thoughts. Impatience. overall, a lot more external stimuli that monday's sit


* Generally, I sit in the evening, while I'm still digesting the dinner. It might explain some of the heat and some of the belly stuff.
* To report more useful descriptions, I should post not too long after the sit. More than 48h delay is too long for these kinds of sits.
* Every time I sit with some regularity, there are times during the day when I'm drawn to note (even with no intention to note in daily life). Probably the manic side of trying to establish a pratice. Fine with me.
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  • Opera
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7 years 6 months ago #94167 by Opera
Replied by Opera on topic Re: Opera's prelude
[b:9a3lsqts]Tuesday, October 8th: 30mn[/b:9a3lsqts]
I don't remember much.

[b:9a3lsqts]Wednesday: 20-25 mn[/b:9a3lsqts]
I remember that every 5mn or so I entered a new phase (sits like this are harder to report on, and they are more and more like this). After counting without much stability, I had a more open noting, visuals, tingles in hte neck; then (or before...) watched the breath from closer than usual, the pauses between out- and in-reaths seemed much longer; interaction of noting with breathing; loud heart rythm and other body rythm; all the while thoughts were not clear and not disembedded at all, even when noted; a more peaceful phase. Probably another one with torpor. Stopped early partly because of tiredness.

[b:9a3lsqts]Thursday: no sitting.[/b:9a3lsqts]

[b:9a3lsqts]Friday: 20mn[/b:9a3lsqts]
I never settled the thoughts and had a negative judgment towards them (and noting it did not change anything, I did not manage to &quot;relax&quot; till late in that short sit). Switched technique every few minute. Again, little continuity. At the end of the sit, though, the body felt very heavy and contacts were proeminent. (I did not stop early, I had set the timer to 20mn because of a lack of sleep).
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