Aziz (Anadi) Kristof

"@Jackson

Yes, from Anadi's autobiography in "Human Buddha", he established the state of presence in Korea with Soen Sahn. Then in Japan he practiced in Soto temples (Antaiji) as well as with Hara Roshi, the student of the famous Yamada Roshi (Rinzai, Myoshinji branch). Harada's main method is to concentrate on the Hara which lead Anadi to the state of Being and then to the Absolute or the Beyond.

What Anadi calls the Beyond is much closer to cessation, but a seed of awareness is still present. As mentioned in the above post, Advaita Vedanta teachers state that we experience it briefly every morning during the transition between deep sleep and waking consciousness. This is also what the Tibetans call the mother Clearlight.

"

@Alex

Thanks for the clarification. I had a feeling he was speaking of Shodo Harada Roshi. I read some of his material, and I can clearly see that Anadi was influenced by his methods.

I'm sure the absolute state is very difficult to describe. It would seem as though the whole thing become unhitched, unglued, or released. I think Ajahn Maha Boowa describes it like this: all phenomena and that which goes out to make contact (i.e. all five kandhas) are released from their entanglement with the Citta. When the Citta is "set free" so to speak, the kandhas keep doing their thing, but there is no longer any clinging. It remains pure and clean. And all the while it was is the Citta that knows - never is it otherwise. Yet somehow this needs to be discovered.

I like Ajahn Chah's analogy of oil and water as well. He says that the kandhas are oil and the Citta is water. When together in a bottle, and shaken up, one can't really tell them a part. It is through settling the mind that the two begin to separate, so that recognition can later be realized. Anyways...

I love this stuff.

~Jackson

You don't seem to have read his autobiography well. After stabilizing in the state of presence, he stopped working with japanese masters altogether and went to India. He met many masters there, and he thought he was in the absolute state. In india he met his soul brother houman emami. They became close spiritually and did alot of channelling sessions. One day the voice of guidance broke through and it is this guidance that has revealed the entire teaching, it is not an amalgamation of his experiences and influences. Guidance told him he was not in the absolute, told him that it is a very rare state, and told him to go do a retreat and how to reach it. During the retreat he reached it. He talks about tuiryatitta, he does not consider it the absolute, but prior to the absolute state - a state of deep being prior to the absolute state combined with pure consciousness. None of the inner state is present prior to its awakening. the seed is there, for the state is nothing but YOU, but it is not awakened and needs to be cultivated. IF one experiences it briefly in the morning, WHO is experiencing it, and who stops experiencing it? If it experiences itself, it will recognize itself permanently - it is the self effulgent presence! The advaita philosophy is full of supreme holes and self contradictions, a complex self negatory philosophy surrounding an often limited awakening.

"The advaita philosophy is full of supreme holes and self contradictions, a complex self negatory philosophy surrounding an often limited awakening."

And you know this how? Just curious...

My opinion, how can one know a philosophy? What shankaracharyas advaita said even has been interpreted differently and with modifications and additions by modern advaita masters? But the holes are self evident to anyone who looks genuinely and has spiritual sensitivity.

@Niaant

I read it last Summer, and might have mixed up the exact timing. What I meant is that the course of practice that lead him to what he calls the Absolute state is definitely inspired by Shodo Harada Roshi. Later on, I was not taking about Anadi, but about Ramana Maharishi and Nisargadatta Maharaj. The experience is not it, but That witnesses the birth of consciousness in a very interesting manner every morning. Ramana Maharishi advised people to observe that to get a direct feel of what he was talking about. Again this is a pointer.

I would also remind Chris that Kenneth's 2nd and 3rd Gear practice is directly inspired from Ramana Maharishi. And it worked very well for him. So we might see all kind of supreme holes and self contradictions everywhere, but what works, works.

Systems are made to provide a framework for practice. As an example, Stoicism might have holes and self contradictions, but the system worked well in order to serve its practical purpose. Same with Abhidhamma, Yogachara, Madhyamika, Hua-yen, Advaita Vedanta or other systems.

"I would also remind Chris that Kenneth's 2nd and 3rd Gear practice is directly inspired from Ramana Maharishi. And it worked very well for him. So we might see all kind of supreme holes and self contradictions everywhere, but what works, works."

I know, Alex, and that's what I'm pointing to. What works is what matters. The rest is.... I'll be nice.

This forum is basically a Theravada Buddhist forum and everything that does not fit within the Mahasi Sayadaw Birmese Theravada mental frame is likely to be considered suspect, too complicated or too simple, plagued with holes and contradictions, you name it.

Some might forget that early Buddhism was strongly influenced by Raja Yoga and Jainism. They might also forget that Advaita Vedanta was also strongly influenced by Yogachara and Madhyamika Buddhism. Concepts change, new systems are created, but the ultimate realty behind these concepts doesn't change.

I wish you all a Merry Christmas and hope that mentioning a Christian holiday on a Buddhist forum will not be considered insulting, considering the fact that Christian theology is full of holes and contradictions - credo quia absurdum.

Indeed...

Happy Holidays to all of you!

ha ha ha!
You have a good sense of humour, Alex!
And a Happy New Year!

"this model does not explain why if it awakens to itself in one body, why it doesn't awaken to itself in all bodies simultaneously."

Dude, this question was freaking me out for a long time. Literally nobody except Kristof seemed to care answering it.

If there is infinite consciousness - how comes that when one body-mind-complexes awakens to it, one does not awaken as all the other body-mind-complexes out there, being able to feel their feelings, think their thoughts? There is only one possible answer, and that's Aziz' concept of the individual soul (or Me or however he calls it).

The problem is, that Buddhism does not answer this question. It has no concept for soul or self (it's very core is the teaching of Anatta, remember?). You really have to turn to the monotheistic religions to find an answer to it. I was raised in a Christian environment, and Christianity nowadays lacks of a coherent teaching (such as the Sefiroth tree for instance). But then again, monotheistic religions, maybe again except Jewish mysticism, seriously lack the clarity when it comes to questions like consciousness, the Absolute and mind. I am very thankful for Nisargadatta and Ramana to tirelessly pointing out to me that there is something even deeper than my ordinary day-to-day consciousness which is similar to (but not equal to) the deep sleep state. It again took me years to understand this but it's absolutely crucial. But even when understanding the idea of the Absolute, the question above remained. It can only be answered when explicitly directing towards individuation.

"Kristof's description of the opening of the Heart, at least as presented here by van der Hut, corresponds very nicely with what I call 4th Path, or Arahatship. There is, in fact, a visceral sense of the kundalini energy, which has been working its way upward through the body for some period of years or decades, leaving the body through the crown chakra, curving around and descending in an arc to come to rest at the heart center. This happens at the moment of 4th Path enlightenment, and can always be sensed after that event."

This is something that Kenneth has written, commenting on Aziz' teachings.

Now, the only place where I have heard such a teaching was reading Adi Da's stuff, see Knee of Listening the newer editions. In that book he is referring to a teaching by Ramana Maharshi who claims that the Kundalini rises through the Sahasrar (as well known by Kundalini-teachers) but then again is bent down towards the right side of the chest (the spiritual Heart called "Hridaya" according to Ramana Maharshi), going through a passage called "Amrita Nadi" or "Atma Nadi" which connects the spiritual Heart with the Sahasrar.

However, I have never heard Buddhist teachers talking about Arahatship being connected to such an energetic phenomenon. Thus my question: How does Kenneth, maybe he can answer this quesion himself, come to his conclusion? After reading his writing called "Realization and Development" I come to the conclusion that he simply adopted Ramana Maharshi's point ot view and then said that this would also be true for Arahats. (By the way, the animation is slightly wrong: The Kundalini's descent is depicted to end in the same spot as the heart chakra in the middle of the chest, but this clearly is not Ramana's point. According to him the spiritual Heart is definitely not the same as the heart chakra and, I say it again, resides in the right side of the chest.)

From what I have read it seems that moving from the OBSERVER (observer of thoughts) to the SUBJECT, is the major obstacle.

Eji Muzika says that beyond this "one has a broad route to follow to self-realisation". But that 20 or 30 years might be taken to make this move.

Anadi on this :

"What can allow the conscious observer at a certain point in its evolution to transform into the conscious me ... the entry into the awakening of the self ?

The reason is that the observer is not in the correct relationship with itself ... you are trying to push it away through some kind of control. It does not work because that aspect of yourself must be embraced. The observer, the part of you that is constantly doing something in the mind is ALSO you, it is part of your consciousness and must be integrated."

My reading of this is ... that the barrier is that through concentration meditation you develop an Observer. But the mind that you are observing -your normal active mind- is not accepted as part of you. Instead you put distance between it and you ... but it MUST also be accepted as part of you in order to progress. Your normal active busy mind must be accepted as you.


References :

Anadi 'Evolution of Human Consciousness'
obstacle is 3 > 4, relates to the acceptance of 2 :

1. subconscious me
2. observer (The part of you that is constantly doing something in the mind 'normal mind' - Anadi)
3. conscious observer (Observer of thoughts)
4. conscious me (SUBJECT)
5. pure me
6. universal light of i am





Muzika
Hunting the I Expanded.pdf
itisnotreal.com/hunting-the-i-expanded.html

Anadi
Transforming Observer into Conscious Me
www.anaditeaching.com/guidedmeditations.htmkennet

The relevant Anadi guided meditation is :

May-June 2011 meditation meetings in Israel

"Transforming Observer into Conscious Me"

After reading this far into this thread, I would like to share my blog about my spiritual awakening... The man who co-wrote "Enlightenment Beyond Traditions," with Aziz ~ Houman E Emamai ~ is my spirit guide. i used to be 100% agnostic, a soft atheist, even after a prior NDE (near death experience). You will find there some info about "Anadi." All you have said has been validated in my interactions with him...especially by his recent 'hate-emails' to me. Seems he cannot wrap his ego around his prior "Beloved Soul Brother" having actually connected with a total stranger from beyond the grave...the stranger was/is me. Anyway...I have never Googled Anadi until now, but had only had a few short email with him after Houman began to connect with me. Anadi didn't show one bit of compassion, nor care one bit about Houman connecting with me...instead, Anadi told me that the ONLY way to become fully enlightened was to go to India to study with him! I later saw that he has now written what he likes to call "The Book" of Enlightenment... and, on Amazon, he doesn't even credit Houman with having co-authored "Enlightenment Beyond Traditions." So, I reviewed "The" book, with Houman's help. Since learning of my review, Anadi has begun to send me hate-email and tell me that Houman has not contacted me, but the devil! He's a SAD man, indeed... Well..here's my REAL-LIFE account of how Houman E Emami (Who co-wrote the first book) woke me... bigislandbutterfly.wordpress.com/

OOPs...not sure how my first comment ended up at becmoing #64, as I clicked post reply back on page 2 of this thread, after another woman's first two posts about Anadi's ego... anyway...if any of you are interested, here is what happened to me, and you will find some about Anadi, etc, in my blog, also: bigislandbutterfly.wordpress.com/
Blessings, Mary Regina