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Convergence: Feeling & Thought. Experience and Intellect
- cmarti
- Topic Author
16 years 3 months ago #52899
by cmarti
A practice, it seems, is comprised of several major elements. Two in particular, outside of morality and dedication. The other two I'm interested in right now are pretty equal in terms of how much I need them in order to feel effective. I need to meditate and experience and I need to read, listen, discover and think. This gets complicated - not in terms of time - but in terms of philosophy, of "why." Intellect, learning, reading, listening, talking and interchanging ideas and concepts, has boosted my practice and it puts experiences I've had into a context (which context, and how that actually works is a huge area of discussion, I know). Experience, practice, meditation, feeling brings the intellectual understanding to ground, to the feeling or emotional truth.
I don't have a burning question about this topic but I am curious about how the rest of you put this together in your life.
Convergence: Feeling & Thought. Experience and Intellect was created by cmarti
A practice, it seems, is comprised of several major elements. Two in particular, outside of morality and dedication. The other two I'm interested in right now are pretty equal in terms of how much I need them in order to feel effective. I need to meditate and experience and I need to read, listen, discover and think. This gets complicated - not in terms of time - but in terms of philosophy, of "why." Intellect, learning, reading, listening, talking and interchanging ideas and concepts, has boosted my practice and it puts experiences I've had into a context (which context, and how that actually works is a huge area of discussion, I know). Experience, practice, meditation, feeling brings the intellectual understanding to ground, to the feeling or emotional truth.
I don't have a burning question about this topic but I am curious about how the rest of you put this together in your life.
- Gozen
- Topic Author
16 years 3 months ago #52900
by Gozen
Replied by Gozen on topic RE: Convergence: Feeling & Thought. Experience and Intellect
Hi Chris,
What you are describing might be compared to an elaborate cooking recipe (if I may use that analogy). Each of the discreet component ingredients ("learning, reading, listening, talking and interchanging ideas and concepts" etc.) requires some individual preparation before it can be added to the others in combination. So, for example, you can't just throw butter into the mixing bowl. First the butter must be softened, or even clarified. It's like that.
At some point in your practice, you will be comfortable enough with how all those "ingredients" have been prepared that you will add them to the big "mixing bowl" of moment-to-moment practice.
Moment-to-moment practice is life. Each moment brings a new challenge, a new opportunity, and a new blessing. That's a kind of philosophical description. But REAL PRACTICE is like being in love. It doesn't follow a script. You engage with your lover at the level of feeling, spontaneously. One instant you are thrilled. The next you are heart-broken. But if you are truly IN love, then you must overcome your own tendencies toward feeling betrayal or "you don't love me" whenever they arrive. Because it's not about a "you", it's about LOVE itself, which is always a form of giving and self-transcending.
What you are describing might be compared to an elaborate cooking recipe (if I may use that analogy). Each of the discreet component ingredients ("learning, reading, listening, talking and interchanging ideas and concepts" etc.) requires some individual preparation before it can be added to the others in combination. So, for example, you can't just throw butter into the mixing bowl. First the butter must be softened, or even clarified. It's like that.
At some point in your practice, you will be comfortable enough with how all those "ingredients" have been prepared that you will add them to the big "mixing bowl" of moment-to-moment practice.
Moment-to-moment practice is life. Each moment brings a new challenge, a new opportunity, and a new blessing. That's a kind of philosophical description. But REAL PRACTICE is like being in love. It doesn't follow a script. You engage with your lover at the level of feeling, spontaneously. One instant you are thrilled. The next you are heart-broken. But if you are truly IN love, then you must overcome your own tendencies toward feeling betrayal or "you don't love me" whenever they arrive. Because it's not about a "you", it's about LOVE itself, which is always a form of giving and self-transcending.
- cmarti
- Topic Author
16 years 3 months ago #52901
by cmarti
Wow, that's a great teaching there! For the past several years I've been disappointed in my in-ability to bring practice off of the cushion and into my life as it gets lived from moment to moment. You make it sound like the ability to do so is a sort of leavening process, which makes intuitive sense to me. I will no longer be disappointed but patient... and learn to cook
Much appreciated, my friend.
Replied by cmarti on topic RE: Convergence: Feeling & Thought. Experience and Intellect
Wow, that's a great teaching there! For the past several years I've been disappointed in my in-ability to bring practice off of the cushion and into my life as it gets lived from moment to moment. You make it sound like the ability to do so is a sort of leavening process, which makes intuitive sense to me. I will no longer be disappointed but patient... and learn to cook
Much appreciated, my friend.
- Khara
- Topic Author
16 years 3 months ago #52902
by Khara
Replied by Khara on topic RE: Convergence: Feeling & Thought. Experience and Intellect
In addition to what Gozen said, here's a passage and commentary from:
Dogen's Instructions for the Cook - IV
In this passage, the "six flavors" are bitter, sour, sweet, salty, mild and hot.
The "three virtues" are to be light & gentle, pure & healthy, and prepared correctly.
Life, like cooking, is sometimes bitter, sometimes sweet and all the other flavors.
With a bit of skill and attention, however, we may be able to fashion that into something balanced, healthy, nourishing and delicious. A good meal.
(and, of course, if we treat our life with imbalance, excess, inattention and a lack of care, we may end up with a horrible, stinking, unhealthy mess).
In the hands of a wise cook, even rough ingredients can be turned into a good meal ...
while a fool will ruin even the finest materials.
What is more, saying that it is "all the same, no matter" from an absolute perspective is not right either ... Some Buddhist theory may lead us to say that it is "all the same", rice and sand, however we cook, because all is ultimately just 'emptiness'.
In this passage, say some commentators, "rice" is a metaphor for wisdom & enlightenment - and "sand" for delusions & excess desires (the dirt that must be cleaned away).
Xuefeng's overturning the pot, and his statement that "sand and rice are simultaneously removed", may be seen as a demonstration that all fades away into emptiness.
But Dongshan, while not questioning Xuefeng's point, still thinks it is a bit too much: "Wonderful, it is all empty", he implies. "But, now that you have spilled over the pot, what are we expected to eat for dinner, fella?"
[Continued --
Dogen's Instructions for the Cook - IV
In this passage, the "six flavors" are bitter, sour, sweet, salty, mild and hot.
The "three virtues" are to be light & gentle, pure & healthy, and prepared correctly.
Life, like cooking, is sometimes bitter, sometimes sweet and all the other flavors.
With a bit of skill and attention, however, we may be able to fashion that into something balanced, healthy, nourishing and delicious. A good meal.
(and, of course, if we treat our life with imbalance, excess, inattention and a lack of care, we may end up with a horrible, stinking, unhealthy mess).
In the hands of a wise cook, even rough ingredients can be turned into a good meal ...
while a fool will ruin even the finest materials.
What is more, saying that it is "all the same, no matter" from an absolute perspective is not right either ... Some Buddhist theory may lead us to say that it is "all the same", rice and sand, however we cook, because all is ultimately just 'emptiness'.
In this passage, say some commentators, "rice" is a metaphor for wisdom & enlightenment - and "sand" for delusions & excess desires (the dirt that must be cleaned away).
Xuefeng's overturning the pot, and his statement that "sand and rice are simultaneously removed", may be seen as a demonstration that all fades away into emptiness.
But Dongshan, while not questioning Xuefeng's point, still thinks it is a bit too much: "Wonderful, it is all empty", he implies. "But, now that you have spilled over the pot, what are we expected to eat for dinner, fella?"
[Continued --
- Khara
- Topic Author
16 years 3 months ago #52903
by Khara
Replied by Khara on topic RE: Convergence: Feeling & Thought. Experience and Intellect
The Rules of Purity for Chan Monasteries says, "If the six flavors are not provided, then it cannot be said that the cook has served the assembly." When examining the rice, first check for sand; when examining the sand [sifted from the rice], first check for rice. If you pay careful attention to detail, watching when coming and watching when going, then your mind cannot be scattered, and [the food] will naturally be replete with the three virtues and endowed with the six flavors.
When Xuefeng resided at Dongshan [monastery], he served as cook. One day when he was sifting rice [master] Dongshan asked him, "Are you sifting the sand and removing the rice, or sifting the rice and removing the sand?" Xuefeng said, "Sand and rice are simultaneously removed." Dongshan asked, "What will the great assembly eat?" Xuefeng overturned the bowl. Dongshan said, "In the future you will go and be scrutinized by someone else."
From: Tenzo Kyokun - Instructions for the Cook by Eihei Dogen - Translated by Griffith Foulk
When Xuefeng resided at Dongshan [monastery], he served as cook. One day when he was sifting rice [master] Dongshan asked him, "Are you sifting the sand and removing the rice, or sifting the rice and removing the sand?" Xuefeng said, "Sand and rice are simultaneously removed." Dongshan asked, "What will the great assembly eat?" Xuefeng overturned the bowl. Dongshan said, "In the future you will go and be scrutinized by someone else."
From: Tenzo Kyokun - Instructions for the Cook by Eihei Dogen - Translated by Griffith Foulk
