Silent Illumination and Hua-Tou

(moved from another thread to preserve topic consistency)

slachs wrote:

"Part 1
Hi Alex,

I am delighted to hear that you have read my papers and 'found them very accurate.' It is also heartening to hear that 'they also had a big impact in Europe.' I am friends with Brian Victoria so will pass on to him your comment about his Zen At War. Alex, do you mean that you wrote the Sanbokyodan piece and Ardent edited it and added some?

I am pretty sure you will love The Sacred Canopy, especially the first 101 pages. I have no hesitation in recommending it.

Yes, I practiced with Sheng- yen for roughly 17 years, though I traveled much during that time. I also taught classes at the center when he was away, which was every three months, and did interviews during the seven day retreats. I left his organization I think in 2000.

I did not have an interest in Silent Illumination practice and did it very little of it. I like doing hua-tou practice. Originally I did koan practice when connected to Japanese Zen affiliated groups. I like the hua- tou style practice much more and am very much more experienced with it. I did this practice in Korea too.

Yes, Silent Illumination can lead to 'seeing the nature' as Sheng-yen would say it. I am not familiar with the different levels of jhana. As you probably know, Chan/Zen does not approach the practice in this manner. I spent a wonderful evening with Kenneth this past spring discussing some of these matters while eating and later sitting in Thompkin's Sq. Park in the East Village of NYC, but I am not conversant with the jhana states." -Stuart

slachs wrote:

"Part 2
I know people who have done much S.I. practice with Sheng-yen and I have heard him talk on it. True he 'described the progressive expansion of awareness' which is interesting but in Sheng-yen's way, there is also a problem, at least I have heard this from people. The problem people describe also makes sense to me. From what I have heard from Sheng-yen and remember from his talks and from some other practitioners, there is a certain amount of monitoring/judging of what state or stage you are in to see if it is time to go to the next stage. This sets up a discursive mind and a separation between the self and the practice. With one rather analytic minded person I know quite well, this played havoc. He seemed to get lost or distracted in trying to decide in which state he was and whether to move on to the next step. I asked him to switch to the hua- tou method and to practice a different way. For him it worked out well.

I know of at least one person who had 'seen the nature' using S.I. He had a strong meditation practice and had a feel for meditation. I would say if you are attracted to the method, give it a try, for a week or two, you may be a natural. I know with the hua-tou, some people are just not mentally suited for it, while others, like myself feel right at home.

All the best,

Stuart"

NigelThompson wrote:

"Master Sheng Yen passed away in February of this year. His loss is felt sharply. And it makes me appreciate even more the valuable teachers of Dharma who are still with us. I think there is no way I'd have been able to come up with even 1% of this on my own. To have so much of it spelled out so clearly is just .....amazing. All because of the countless contributions to the contemplative path by people before.

Dana!" - Nigel

Alex Weith wrote:

"Part 1

Hi Stuart,

Yes, I wrote a Zen Note in 1998 that Ardent edited a bit (since English is not my mother tongue). He then used it as a base for his article "Sankyo Kyodan, The Heritage of Western Zen". One of my sources was an article published in the Japanese Journal of Religious Studies (I got a copy from the library of Geneva University's Asia Department back then), together with stories from Nishiyama Roshi and Bruce Harris who told me the insider's story of European Soto Zen and Sanbokyodan respectively. My intention was not to attack any particular organization, but to point of that a large part of the leading Western Zen teachers where seen as cult leaders from the point of view of mainstream Japanese Zen.

Your articles as well as Brian Victoria's book have been translated into French. Readers wrote a letter to the head of the AZI, asking Roland Rech to publicly take a stand with regard to Kodo Sawaki's position during World War II. Just for France, if I google your name, I can find 117 French pages from Zen or academic sites refering to your articles, in connection with controversies and debates in Western Zen circles. Same for Germany, Italy or Spain I guess." - Alex

Alex Weith wrote:

"Part 2

Thank you for the information about Sheng-yen's Silent Illumination practice. Going through pats of "Hoofprint of the Ox" this afternoon, I realized that Sheng-yen sifu expressly mentioned that formless samadhis are likely to be experienced during the second phase of practice. From a Caodong perspective, it is important to be familiar with samadhis and jhanas (dhyana) to avoid mistaking them with "seeing self-nature". I can understand how the three-phase approach can be a source of problem or confusion for practitioners. Having experienced these three stages as a result of various methods, including shizantaza, anapansati and huatou , I understand that these stages come naturally and are not steps that should be followed with a goal-oriented intent. Since my main background in Soto/Caodong Zen (with a strong emphasis on shikantaza), I will give it a try. I'll let you know if I ever experience something worth mentioning.

Sheng-yen's huatou instructions are by far the best and clearest that I have seen so far. They are also closely related to Dahui's original method. My main problem with huatou practice is that when I try to raise up the huatou during the day, "chi" tends to rise up to my head, causing headaches. It there a way to avoid that?

I often pass by NYC in Spring and hope to be able to see you and Kenneth one day.

Kind regards,

Alex"

slachs wrote:
Hi Alex,

As you know, Jap. Zen is very sectarian. Rinzai and Soto sects mostly do not get on or think much of each other. It is not surprising then that they would paint Western Zen teachers, who they by and large do not know, as cult leaders. As you know, I do not mean to protect Western Zen leaders, or the Sanbyo Kyodan sect, but these kinds of attacks by mainstream Jap. Zen seem silly . Main stream Jap. Zen has enough to do watching themselves.

Thanks much for the info about the French Google. It is pleasing to know that people are reading what I write and that it has some effect.

What Sheng-yen says about the need to be 'familiar with samadhis and jhanas to avoid mistaking them with "seeing self-nature" when practicing Silent Illumination is no doubt true. But in fact, it is easy or common to mistake samadhis for 'seeing the nature' no matter what the practice. This happens with hua-tou practice too. I think it is a common mistake as Chan places so much emphasis on 'seeing the nature' that it is not surprising that people imagine samadhi or a state of one mind for the desired goal, if one may talk that way. I think it is common in Chan/Zen too for people to mistake a oneness state for seeing the nature. I have spoken with some people that to me had a oneness experience but were told it was kensho. This whole business of passing people and telling them they have seen this or that is not exactly like history, i.e., there was a Battle of Waterloo or there wasn't. Teachers say different things to different people for a number of reasons. Sheng-yen was not immune from practicing this supposed less than mind to mind transmission game. In going through koan courses in the Japanese system, sometimes people are 'passed' easily just to keep them moving along or for some other reasons. At other times 'passing' may be more difficult. What 'passing' actually means is rarely discussed, because it means many things.

slachs wrote:

"Part 2
Sheng-yen's instructions on the hua-tou I found very good too, though I do not know what he said after 1999 or 2000. By then I think he was already drifting from his earlier clarity. The Chinese and Koreans seem to differ much from the Japanese in practice method with regards to the hua-tou. The Chinese and Koreans following Dahui stress raising the doubt sensation and having a small doubt grow and grow until all there is, is doubt, referred to Great Doubt. This is where all one's doubt in life collapses into this one Great Doubt where nothing else exists except Great Doubt. The Japanese on the other hand seem to stress 'become one with,' as in 'become one with Mu,' commonly heard with people practicing Joshu's Mu. If one can stay with this Great Doubt '“ it may break open into a Chan state. There is a famous saying, 'small doubt, small enlightenment, great doubt, great enlightenment.' In any case, it is not the end of practice, and one is definitely not an enlightened being.


You wrote,' My main problem with huatou practice is that when I try to raise up the huatou during the day, "chi" tends to rise up to my head, causing headaches. It there a way to avoid that?'

One reason for this may be trying to force the hua-tou. I think one should begin gently with it- just asking the hua- tou with a curious or enquiring mind. I think it is also good to disconnect the hua-tou from your breadth. This too is different from at least some Japanese teachers who instruct there students to synchronize the breadth with Mu for power. Disconnecting the hua-tou from the breadth may seem difficult at first, but once learned, I found it makes going into the hua-tou much easier and smoother. Also- do not think you will answer the hua-tou, but rather that the hua-tou will answer you. Do not be anxious or greedy or in a hurry. The hua-tou will take on a life of its own in due time." - Stuart

slachs wrote:

"Part 3
One method for keeping the chi down from going into your head and the accompanying headache is to focus your attention on the soles of your feet when you feel the chi rising. Chi rising as you describe may be from tensing your face and keeping the h-t up in your head. It is important to be relaxed and examine the h-t lightly. Also do not try and control your breadth. It will naturally slow down. Jut ask the h-t and try to be clear in repeating it- try not to let a space in between your asking the h-t, but stay relaxed. I think staying relaxed and not synchronizing the h-t with your breadth will take care of much of the problem.

If you can, examining the h-t while lying in bed before falling sleep can be effective. You may find your self waking up in the morning with the h-t going on its own. This can be unsettling.

I hope this of some help.

I would love to meet you when you are in NYC this spring. Be great to get together with Kenneth and make it three.

All the best,

Stuart"

Alex Weith wrote:

"Hi Stuart,

Thank you very much for your wise advice regarding hua-tou practice. Even if there are a few very good books describing correct hua-tou practice, personal advice from a seasoned practitioner is invaluable. We could have talked about this via email, but others on this forum might be interested by this unique Zen method of self-inquiry that falls into what Kenneth calls '2nd Gear Practice'.

Following your advice, I started bringing up the hua-tou this morning after reading your post. I get back to it whenever I realize that I have lost it. So far so good! In the past, I was obviously trying to force the feeling of doubt instead of allowing it to grow naturally. My other mistake was to synchronize the hua-tou with the breath, often unconsciously.

I have also tried Sheng-yen's 'Silent Illumination' last night. The second stage where awareness expends to include the whole room as one's new extended body came naturally after about 10 to 15 minutes. One cannot force it, but when it comes, this stage of practice is very clear, as a deliberate effort is then required to get back to the first stage where awareness is limited to the physical body. The third stage is also unmistakable (the sense of 'self' dissolves entirely), but I have never been able to get to it through Shikantaza alone in the past. We shall see...

Thanks again,

Alex"

slachs wrote:

"Part 1

Hi Alex,

It had occurred to me also that maybe we should talk about this privately by email or even the phone. Skype is free. But I also thought others on the forum might be interested in hearing what some one who has practiced this method has to say, especially so as most people are coming from a different tradition. I know Gozan is an exception, but there may be others.

I would be a more careful than some others in equating methods from different traditions that come out of different times, places, and intellectual and spiritual backgrounds. I do not mean to say one is better or worse, just that if we are interested in trying a practice, we should take it on its own ground and in its own terms. At least I think that way, for better or worse. I read some of Kenneth's 2nd gear and there seems to be a bit of a different flavor as well as method to what I learned and practiced in the hua-tou.

I do not mean to get into a fine discussion of comparing, but rather to just explain the hua-tou method as I understand it. Kenneth wrote, 'You will find that it is very enjoyable indeed, as this apparent "I" has no stake in anything that goes on; it is just an impassive witness. Continue to become ever-more-deeply absorbed into this sense of "I", understanding that someday it will dissolve of its own accord, leaving only pure, non-local awareness.' I will only talk about this in connection with the hua-tou method." -Stuart

slachs wrote:

Part 2

"In the hua-tou method this 'I' would be rejected, rather, not paid attention to and the enjoyment that naturally arises, also should not be paid attention to. The method is dependent on raising the doubt! Please be clear, THAT is the method. Getting a small doubt to grow and grow until the doubt takes on an energy and goes by itself. It hopefully becomes more and more powerful and every thing else drops away so that there is only doubt that takes on a life of its own. People often become frightened at this time, because they feel like they will fall into a dark pit and never return. It feels like you could go 'pooof' and just be no more. It can be scary and most people will feel this fear, probably many times. However, through practice you have to learn to get past this. I said yesterday, the method calls for all your doubts to collapse into this one Great Doubt, and that is all there will be at that time. It is from this position of only doubt, Great Doubt if you will, that the opening into Chan occurs. That is, in this method.

Yes, what Kenneth said does happen. However, in this method enjoying this state will not lead to a greater doubt. Becoming 'absorbed into this sense of '˜I", will not let the doubt grow. I know this personally very well. I once went into this very enjoyable state, absorbed in the 'I' and stayed that way for a few days. It finally broke. Though it was extremely pleasurable, I realized clearly, that in terms of hua-tou practice (please understand, strictly in these terms and this context), it was a waste of time. The only sense that it was not a waste of time (again, only in this context) was that I then knew 100% clearly not to go there again, no matter how pleasurable and clear it seemed. " - Stuart

slachs wrote:

"Part 3
Besides Great Doubt, the hua-tou method calls for Great Diligence and Great Faith. I hope people do not get put off by the capital letters here. I use them only because it is common in the literature on the hua-tou.

Great Diligence means that doing this method will take much effort and perseverance and mostly much energy and time. One can not sit back and just relax and expect that some day everything will just open up. In fact it may, but that is not this method.

Great Faith means that one should believe that you already have the Buddha-nature, that there is nothing to gain from the outside, you are already complete. One should also believe in the efficacy of the method, that thousands of people have used it successfully and that I can too. One should have faith that they are capable of doing this particular practice and want to do it.

These are called the three Greats of hua-tou practice. All are necessary: Great Faith, Great Diligence, and Great Doubt. They all should be cultivated.

Alex, though I wrote about great energy and like that, one should start by being relaxed and gently looking and constantly asking the hua-tou with an enquiring mind. Do not try to force the doubt, all the energy and what follows will come of it self if you can stick with the hau-tou and keep asking without space between the asking. In this method, keep rejecting answers that may arise and come back to the hua-tou.

I did not mean to say that connecting the breadth to the h-t is the 'wrong' way to practice. Many people believe it is the right way to practice. I have been taught and have done it both ways, and I find disconnecting the breadth with the h-t worked better for me. I recommend that method, though I think it is less known." -Stuart

slachs wrote:

"Part 4
As you probably know there are many h-t. A short sample is 'Who am I?', 'What is it?', Who is dragging this corpse around?' , the Chinese like 'Who is repeating the Buddhas name?', because the Chinese like to chant Amitabha's name , 'What is Mu (Jap.) or Wu (Ch.)?' , 'What is my original face before my father and mother were born?' and so on. Once one gets a sense of the h-t, you just examine the 'Who' or 'What' not the whole question. I have also found that besides practicing the h-t just before going to sleep to be particularly well suited, practicing during necessary activities like while going to the toilet and during eating seem to have an extra meaning or strength.

I hope this rant is helpful.

Sorry for so long a post.

All the best,

Stuart"

Part 1.

Hi Stuart,

Yes, I feel very privileged to be able to discuss hua-tou practice with someone who might be known for his sharp critical study of legitimacy and authority in Zen communities, but who is also a very advanced practitioner, a Zen master in his own right. Thank you for writing such a long and detailed explanation, knowing that you are often very busy.

Since I have investigated Joshu's Mu in the past with a Rinzai teacher (Japanese style which is a bit different as you know, even if Hakuin seemed to be faithful to Dahui's original method), but have not been able to keep a close contact for various reasons, I decided to get back to Zhaozhou's Wu.

I have therefore been bringing up the hua-tou 'What is Wu?' for a few days now, mainly throughout the day, bringing up the hua-tou whenever I lose it (most difficult is when talking with people), but also during formal sitting practice, namely after a course of Jhana practice under Kenneth's supervision.

During the day, I sometimes get into states of deep quietude at work, or in the street. I then keep inquiring, raising the hua-tou from the depth of inner silence.
(Cont.)

Part 2.

During formal sitting practice, it seems that the energy blockage has cleared away somehow, at least temporarily. You advice also helped getting into the right state of relaxed concentration. I see that I can then push the inquiry a little bit without inconvenience. I also found that, in the beginning, it also helps to slowly recall the whole story (namely koan/gong an), before focusing on the head word (hua-tou) or main question 'Wu?' or 'what is Wu?'

The hua-tou feels like a drill digging through the mind and bringing up material from the unconscious. I just note it before getting back to the hua-tou. I am a very early stage, one the mind is starting to get comfortable with the hua-tou, waking up with it. You mentioned higher stages when one may become frightened. This is often mentioned in Zen literature. It is like a form a Dark Night similar to Daniel Ingram description? Or is it more like an existential fear of dissolution crystallized in the Great Doubt? When it happens, it is necessary to go into retreat or seclusion, or can one learn to deal with it in the middle of everyday life?

Kind regards,

Alex

Part 1
Hi Alex,

Thank you for the compliments, but I am, like just about every roshi/Zen master, another ordinary itching and scratching person. I have some many years experience using the hua- tou. It has been a very beneficial practice for me and so I would like to share some of that experience of the practice with you and other people. I think it can be helpful for others too, though some guidance is called for. Hua-tou practice is definitely not for every one. Fortunately, there are many other practices, so I think people should find what suits them.

You have hit I think on the correct way to start the practice. 'In the beginning, it is good to slowly recall the whole story (namely koan/gong an), before focusing on the head word (hua-tou) or main question 'Wu?' or 'what is Wu?' Yes, start by going through the whole case. That is, a monk asked Zhaozhou, does a dog have Buddha nature or not? Zhaozhou replied Wu. Of course, according to the Chan view, all sentient beings have Buddha nature, so why did Zhaozhou replz Wu? Wu being no or nothingness.
Repeat the whole case a few times until you get a taste of the case then look at the Wu.
Please start relaxed and just try to keep an enquiring mind.

Sheng-yen gave a helpful image to help sense how to do this. Suppose you live in apartment with thin walls so you hear everything through the wall. Next store lives a woman you are interested in. You hear her come in and walk across the room- you wonder where is she going-them you hear a noise '“bang- what happened what did she drop or bang '“ and so on- you want to know what she is doing but do not know- are not sure what she is doing so you try to listen more carefully- listening for every sound and wondering '“what now- what is it '“what is she doing'¦ So try to approach Wu in this manner. I found this helpful

Part 2

The hua-tou is 'like a drill digging through the mind and bringing up material from the unconscious.' That is fine, note it and then let it go '“ come back to the h-t. In time this bringing up material will stop or slow down or will have little power to pull you along.

Eventually, as the thoughts that arise slow down or stop all together so that it becomes quiet and the connection with the world gets thin in that you are not worried about tomorrow or yesterday or the past '“ the connection with who you think you are becomes weak as you are questioning who or what,... Of course this can be very pleasant, but focus on the h-t '“keep to the doubt feeling not the pleasure. Depending on the person, a fear may start developing that you will get lost. With some people this happens quite quickly and strongly, and these people are not suited for the h-t. But with others, it happens as the h-t gains power so that the h-t is going by itself, the h-t is alive now and the connections we use to place ourselves in the world and who we think we are, are not happening because the h-t has become a driving force in the mind . At that point there can be a feeling or sense of being out of control- the h-t is racing and it is easy to feel like if this gets any stronger I will just go poof and be gone- gone into oblivion- a black hole- never to return- that is what it feels like. With practice you should learn to continue- not be stopped by this fear- dismiss it. There are many ways to stop the h-t: thinking compassionate thoughts will stop you, feeling strong emotions for others will stop you, laughing or crying will stop you, just stopping will stop you, thinking just to take a short break and then continuing later will stop you, '¦ Do not stop, don´ t get caught by these thoughts no matter how lofty or whatever, drop them and stick to the h-t.

Part 3

When the h-t is going , is alive, don't get distracted or stopped- this is the time to cling to the h-t with renewed effort '“stay with it- don´t comment or think what is happening- just keep going with the h-t '“ it is like holding on to a speeding train- only the h-t exists '“nothing else exists- there is no you- no thoughts '“ no comments- just the h-t speeding along being all there is'¦.This is the key time in the practice when the h-t can break open and show you your true nature.

The fear can be mild- like a little annoyance '“ then it is no problem to deal with. If this fear became strong while walking in the street, then you have to deal with it quickly. I think you want to take care of this immediately on the street. But most likely a strong fear will happen when you are meditating well. Then, the best thing is to continue meditating, recognize it as a fear and try to continue with meditating with the h-t. At that time the h-t will have some life '“maybe very alive- so do not let it go- don`t waste it.

Remember, it is called practice. It may take some getting used to or on the other hand, you may drive right through it.

Sorry, I am not familiar with Daniel`s Dark Night.

All the best,

Stuart

Hi All,

I forgot to include one very important point when practicing the hua-tou. Under no circumstances practice the h-t while
driving a car, or a bicycle, or using power tools, or doing any thing that could cause a problem or accident because you are not
paying full attention. I think this includes crossing streets in a city or any place there is traffic. It is best not to practice while walking in crowded cities for this reason. Though it may be best to be practicing all the time, we have to be sensible and adapt to our circumstances. Practicing all the time is fine when in a protected environment. We do not want to hurt ourselves or any one else.

Please, any one doing this practice, take this warning to heart.

Thank you,

Stuart

"Hi All,

I forgot to include one very important point when practicing the hua-tou. Under no circumstances practice the h-t while
driving a car, or a bicycle, or using power tools, or doing any thing that could cause a problem or accident because you are not
paying full attention. I think this includes crossing streets in a city or any place there is traffic. It is best not to practice while walking in crowded cities for this reason. Though it may be best to be practicing all the time, we have to be sensible and adapt to our circumstances. Practicing all the time is fine when in a protected environment. We do not want to hurt ourselves or any one else.

Please, any one doing this practice, take this warning to heart.

Thank you,

Stuart
"

Hi Stuart,
Thanks for mentioing this precaution.

Coincidentally, at about the same minute you posted this, I was on the telephone with someone who asked me whether he ought to try hua-tuo practice. I neither discouraged nor encouraged him -- I'd rather he decide for himself -- but I did warn him that this is an intensive practice that is more easily done in a retreat or monastic environment.

Regards,
Gozen

Part 1
Hi Gozen,

Good hearing from you.

I agree 100% with your answer to the enquiry about whether or not to take up hua-tou practice. It is as you say, for each person to decide for themselves and then to see if they are indeed suited to this particular method. There is only one way to find out, try it.

I would however, qualify the other part of your answer some. Yes, h-t is an intensive practice, but silent illumination , shikantaza, and other practices are intense too. Rather, I think the experience, motivation, commitment, being suited to this practice, other obligations in one's life and other factors determine how intense practice is at any given time.

Clearly, retreat time can be more intense than 'normal' times in one's life, that is why people go on retreat. But this is not 100% true either. I think a better attitude is to practice as intensely as one can with the clear understanding that one does not know what the next moment will be. It is common to at times feel totally motivated and wanting to sit and meditate and then sit down and everything goes flat. What happened? At other times, feeling very tired and not really in the mood or motivated to meditate and one finds that ten minutes into sitting everything clears, energy appears, and practice is intense and alive. The lesson to me seems to be '“do not anticipate what will be. Work as best as you can and give up thinking you know and can control what is going to happen in the next moment of meditation. If things are going very well, do not stop and rest and think you can pick up where you decided to rest, more often than not, that moment is gone. Just practice as intensely as you can and do not worry what the next moment will bring. Thinking about what the next moment will bring will most likely stop the doubt from growing.

Part 2
A monastic setting could be helpful but that depends on what one does in a monastery. I have spent time in a number of monasteries and clearly the idea that people are there to only practice is an idealization very far from the reality I witnessed. Many people are there as a way of life, plain and simple, rather than an intense or really, any desire to see into the nature of life. Then too, some people are very tied up with administrative functions to run the monastery, while others are there only to meet the obligation of taking over a family temple. This is especially true in Japan. There are many reasons for choosing a monastic life besides wanting to practice.

Again, a retreat environment can be and usually is more intense than at other times, but this is not 100% true. You just do not know what the next moment of meditation will be, or for that matter, of daily life will be. But a retreat will more often than not be more intense with a person who has developed a good steady practice as part of their daily life. Doing a retreat without having a steady daily practice seems like not he best way to go on a retreat. For that reason, I recommend that people make a schedule for themselves, especially so for newer people. This will help to help develop a steady practice. I recommend that people start slowly with a schedule they can definitely keep and then extend it to suit their given life obligations and their own level and way of practicing. It is important in my mind to start slowly to build up your confidence in being able to stick with the practice and to develop steadiness. Trying to do too much too soon is a prescription for failure, at least for most people.

All the best,

Stuart

Yes, my initial mistake years back was to join intense rohatsu sesshins when my daily practice was not yet stabilized. Now I prefer building a solid foundation through regular practice, trying to blend formal sitting meditation with everyday life (keeping in mind Stuart's warning when it comes to driving a car or crossing the road).

We should note also that Japanese koan practice tends to be more intense than Chinese or Korean hua-tou investigation. In Korea, they often keep the same hua-tou for years, practicing on their own before going back to their teacher when they feel that they have touched something worth mentioning. The fact that Dahui, Bassui and even Hakuin taught hua-tou investigation to lay students by mail, tends to show that a monastic environment was not a requirement back then. But is it true that koan practice in the Rinzai-shu requires close contact and regular interviews with a teacher.

Stuart, reading Sheng-yen's "Shattering the Great Doubt" I found an interesting mention of what he called "direct contemplation" and "contemplation of emptiness". It would be interesting to know more about this, as it sounds pretty close the classical Tang Dynasty Ch'an practice, in particular Hui-neng's non-abiding mind.

Part 1
Hi Alex,

I think the mistake you mention is common. People go on a retreat thinking they
can just get intense. More often than not, without a steady practice as a base, they mostly
struggle with the retreat, the intensity does not develop, and they look for the retreat to end. I think it is important to develop a steady practice and to own your practice so that it is not dependent on being with other people, a teacher, or a group. These can all be helpful in many ways and also problematical, but the sense of owning your practice I think is important.

I would take issue with your assessment that Japanese koan practice is more intense than Korean or Chinese hua-tou investigation. I would say that Japanese koan practice is more martial, often gratuitous at that, than Korean or Chinese practice, but this just reflects cultural differences. I do not think martial means more intense.

True Korean Soen practitioners often stay with the same hua-tou for years, but why do you think that is less intense than going through a Japanese koan curriculum where one is moved along to go through the koan course, write essays and talks on the koan graded by the roshi, and memorize Chinese capping phrases?

part 2
Korean and Japanese monastic systems are like night and day. For one, all Korean moasteries begin their three month training period on the exact same day. Every monk should be in a monastery by that day. The monks taking part in the meditation retreat (only about 15%) vote on the schedule for that retreat period, so that monks wanting an intense meditation retreat , have to judge who else is at the particular monastery before day one. The same goes for monks wanting a lighter schedule. Also, the Korean monks move around and decide where they will do their retreat period and often what is most important, is who the other monks are. There is no koan curriculum to go through so there is no going through many koans in a retreat, as do the Japanese. That is confusing to Koreans as is the Koreans moving around and picking where they will do their three month retreat is to the Japanese. Korean monks have much more freedom moving around and going where they want than do the Japanese monks who need a letter of recommendation from their teacher to go anywhere. No letter '“ no acceptance at another monastery for a lengthy stay.

A Korean three month retreat is just that- a straight retreat for three months with one day off- day 49. In Japanese monasteries there is a week retreat at the beginning of each month with maybe a short two, three, or four day retreat before and after separated by a day off. It is also true that on retreat in Korea, it is only necessary to see the teacher once every two weeks, though the teacher is available all the time, if a monk feels it is necessary for an interview. During Japanese sesshin (retreat) it is required to see the teacher (roshi) a number of times a day.