Impermanence, No-Self and Suffering

"
Yep, I mean exactly as you have described it; that is, what you have described is the result of the seeing through or 'cutting through', more traditionally - though there is an ebb and flow across a continuum, as you have alluded to, until I assume, stable Buddhahood has been fully realized."

Ok - good.

For a second there I thought you meant the whole sense of having an embodied experience was seen through, and I wasn't sure how that was done. Hard to get past the whole Dasein thing.

*I* personally wouldn't see such a person as mentally ill, though it's hard to speak for others. There are some complete hacks out there. I think most wouldn't get around to asking the questions that would lead such a person to describe their experience this way. Technically speaking, there needs to be impaired social or occupational functioning (or personal distress) to diagnose any kind of mental illness. Someone who chronically walked around as the Witness might be seen as dissociated - what I describe might be viewed as borderline psychotic - particularly if I went into any detail about my intuitive perceptions - but not commitable. For that you have to be a danger to others, yourself, or gravely disabled.

Funny thing is, up until about a year ago, I had convinced myself that everyone more or less experienced reality the way I do, though I knew I had more ability with paranormal engineering and perception than just about anyone I knew. I thought the experiences which permanently changed the structure of my consciousness had made me "normal" (which in a way is true) and didn't seriously entertain the thought that I had become enlightened, partially or otherwise.

"
Yes, I continue to maintain that the 4th Path attainment and rigpa are two distinct phenomena. Chris made a concise but compelling case in post 58 that Daniel is using the word rigpa in a way that is not consistent with definition given by others.
(...)
It seems to me that without the 4th Path attainment we cannot reach our potential with regard to stabilizing rigpa. So, these two distinct phenomena go together like bread and butter. But both are required, and one does not automatically grant the other.
"

Hi Kenneth,

Thank you for clarifying this fundamental issue!! What you are saying is that Buddhahood includes two complementary accomplishments, revealing and actualizing what I call the empty essence and the luminous function of the Mind.

Now I assume that this has practical consequences. It would logically mean that while 1st Gear practice is complementary to 2nd and 3rd Gear practice, it does not lead to the same accomplishment. In order to integrate these, could we then include luminosity as a fourth characteristic in our 1st Gear vipassana practice? Cultivating samatha and vipassana in balance, we could then fuse them into 3rd Gear practice?

Kind regards,

Alex

Hey Gary!

It is just a matter of self-reporting by the patient, and the psychiatrist - mental health worker - must then interpret, observe, and receive reports of observations from family, friends etc - it's about the nature of the subjective experience of the person who may be having a psychotic episode - there's no lab tests for these things, so it is interpretive by the worker, and one's conceptual frameworks will influence our judgment of specific indicators or presentations. At least as I understand it, but social work training has nothing on psychiatry insofar as mental illness, at least. ;-P

Oh, and I think that was a great call on Rigpa and the first-person point of view too - very hard to describe these things - what is literal and what is simile in our descriptive language?

In kind regards,

Adam.

If you really want me to pop back in:

Tarin and I had a good laugh at this discussion thread spurred by his email whose subject was simply anagamidharma.wetpaint.com

D

"If you really want me to pop back in:

Tarin and I had a good laugh at this discussion thread spurred by his email whose subject was simply anagamidharma.wetpaint.com

D"

You're not going to share? Hey, I like a good laugh too!

(Just goes to show, enlightened folk can be petty too) ;^)

"Tarin and I had a good laugh at this discussion thread spurred by his email whose subject was simply anagamidharma.wetpaint.com
"


please anagami000001dharma.wetpaint.com to allow for others! Although I am not sure about allowing Tarin to be number one.

"If you really want me to pop back in:

Tarin and I had a good laugh at this discussion thread spurred by his email whose subject was simply anagamidharma.wetpaint.com

D"


After centuries of hardcore no-self abhidhammic theory and years of meditation practice, I am amazed to see that we are still able to keep a strong and healthy sense of individuality as well as a good sense of humor. Since bodhisattvas tend to delay cosmic suicide to let others jump into Parinirvana first, they might as well be eternal anagamis.

Hmm... I take it Dan doesn't quite agree with Kenneth's said comparative interpretation of 4th path and Rigpa!?!

Being lighthearted about it all is probably a good idea - however, it's kinda lookin a little nasty - nothing new from Tarin, but not too consistent with AF, though. I guess I should keep in mind human consistency and harmlessness is a mythical dimension in comic-book land.

In kind regards,

Adam.

The best way to turn this into something we might regret is to keep it alive. I plan let it go.

"
The best way to turn this into something we might regret is to keep it alive. I plan let it go.


"

Hey Chris!

I suspect your none-too subtle moderator hints are right on target - perhaps it is time to close the thread indeed!?!

In kind regards,

Adam.

Maybe we need a thread on humor.

Come on guys lighten up. Humor is a good relief here why hold on to this thing?
You can still get serious again in the future.

Yeah, my bad. Official apology pending *takes a conciliatory bow* ;-p

All kidding aside, I would like to know what exactly is the source of the amusement. Aside from the inevitable comedy of errors and hubris present in any attempt at discussing and presenting "truth", what are the foundational propositions that are considered to be off the mark?

I wonder if it is possible if Dan would feel charitable enough to start a new thread that articulates his position on the 'Rigpa - 4th-Path comparative analysis' set out be Kenneth? New thread, fresh tone. No doubt, we can discusses it, like the mature children we are!! ;-P

Sincerely, I do want to know.

In kind regards,

Adam.

On the bright side, look how our little counterculture community of progressive Buddhists has raised the bar! Dharma Overground, KFDh and OpenEnlightenment.org may be the only places in the known universe where the word "anagami" is used in a pejorative sense.

I think we covered some important territory in this discussion and clarified some positions, at least for the time being. Thanks so much to everyone involved. I'm going to close this thread (it's getting a little long anyway) and we can take up this theme again in another thread or explore parts of it as Haquan is doing now in his Phenomenology of Enlightened Experience thread:

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/33...lightened+Experience

Kenneth