- Forum
- Sanghas
- Kenneth Folk Dharma
- Kenneth Folk Dharma Archive
- Original
- Karma, rebirth and the meaning of life.
Karma, rebirth and the meaning of life.
- n_F
- Topic Author
16 years 2 months ago #53400
by n_F
Karma, rebirth and the meaning of life. was created by n_F
I grew up Buddhist but later shed most of the cultural aspects of Buddhism and started concentrating on the meditative/nondualistic aspect of it. Stage wise, I'm a n00b, lagging around at a self diagnosed pre-arising and passing stage, yet I can feel the tug of " I need to get this done".
From the people who have reached the arahat stage or who have made significant advances,
(1) How you define karma? is it simply conditioning of this life? Are there any merit in the old Theravada doctrine of what we do in our past lives effect this life? or is it more along the lines of "universe treats you as you treat it"?
(2) What is your opinion of rebrith? I understand this could be hard to explain in dualistic language.
(3) Is the purpose of that "I" have taken a human form to realize that there's no separation between the seen and the watcher?
I understand that these are questions not directly related to practice,
This seems like a pretty open community, so I'm giving it a try.
From the people who have reached the arahat stage or who have made significant advances,
(1) How you define karma? is it simply conditioning of this life? Are there any merit in the old Theravada doctrine of what we do in our past lives effect this life? or is it more along the lines of "universe treats you as you treat it"?
(2) What is your opinion of rebrith? I understand this could be hard to explain in dualistic language.
(3) Is the purpose of that "I" have taken a human form to realize that there's no separation between the seen and the watcher?
I understand that these are questions not directly related to practice,
This seems like a pretty open community, so I'm giving it a try.
- AlexWeith
- Topic Author
16 years 2 months ago #53401
by AlexWeith
Replied by AlexWeith on topic RE: Karma, rebirth and the meaning of life.
Welcome on this forum! Since I am not an Arahat, nor an advanced practitioner, I do not feel qualified to try to answer these questions. But someone has to start anyway:-
If there is a lot of superstition around karma and rebirth in Asian countries encouraged by monks who find the idea motivating to let lay devotes in search for good karma spend part of their income to support their monasteries, I feel that without karma and rebirth Buddhism is quickly reduced to feel good pop-psychology. What I mean here is that the whole point of Buddhism is to gain freedom from birth and death. What is an Anagami or a Sakagamis if death is already the end of suffering? Where do Anagamis or Sakagamis return if there is no rebirth anyway? On the other side, I sometimes agree with Nietzsche to say that religions are good at placing themselves as only solution to problems that they have themselves created.
Unlike many, I do not think that existence in Samsara has more meaning than a hamster in a running mill. The only meaning of life from amiba to Bill Clinton is to survive and replicate. Even if we are not aware of it, we are driven to it by our hormones and reptilian brain like any other mammal. This is also the root of Paticcasamuppada. This opinion seems to be shared by most ancient Greek philosophers as well as by the Buddha himself who opposed the idea of another popular teacher of his time who believed that liberation would happen automatically over time, as if by the forces of nature. This wrong view was unless mistaken called naturalist heresy. The symbol of Buddhism is the wheel and its view of conditioned existence is cyclical, like stoicism and other classical traditional systems.
Reading these lines, I realize that I may sound super conservative '“ LOL.
If there is a lot of superstition around karma and rebirth in Asian countries encouraged by monks who find the idea motivating to let lay devotes in search for good karma spend part of their income to support their monasteries, I feel that without karma and rebirth Buddhism is quickly reduced to feel good pop-psychology. What I mean here is that the whole point of Buddhism is to gain freedom from birth and death. What is an Anagami or a Sakagamis if death is already the end of suffering? Where do Anagamis or Sakagamis return if there is no rebirth anyway? On the other side, I sometimes agree with Nietzsche to say that religions are good at placing themselves as only solution to problems that they have themselves created.
Unlike many, I do not think that existence in Samsara has more meaning than a hamster in a running mill. The only meaning of life from amiba to Bill Clinton is to survive and replicate. Even if we are not aware of it, we are driven to it by our hormones and reptilian brain like any other mammal. This is also the root of Paticcasamuppada. This opinion seems to be shared by most ancient Greek philosophers as well as by the Buddha himself who opposed the idea of another popular teacher of his time who believed that liberation would happen automatically over time, as if by the forces of nature. This wrong view was unless mistaken called naturalist heresy. The symbol of Buddhism is the wheel and its view of conditioned existence is cyclical, like stoicism and other classical traditional systems.
Reading these lines, I realize that I may sound super conservative '“ LOL.
- Gozen
- Topic Author
16 years 2 months ago #53402
by Gozen
Replied by Gozen on topic RE: Karma, rebirth and the meaning of life.
Hi n_F and welcome to the group.
Philosophically, I agree with what Alex said about karma and rebirth in Buddhism and about the world of Samsara as basically an animal realm of reproductive competition, with mother nature "red in tooth and claw" as the saying goes.
As a practical matter -- the matter of how to begin serious Buddhist practice -- I would say to you "Don't worry about theories yet. Engage the practical disciplines that have been refined over many millennia and then see what happens."
In my own case, I began Zen practice without any belief in karma or rebirth. In that regard my basic approach was consistent with what Stephen Batchelor discussed in his book "Buddhism without Beliefs."
But when my practice deepened and began to bear fruit, this changed. Karma and rebirth were recognized as simple facts that could not be denied. It's not a matter of belief now; it's simply obvious.
Practice now!
Regards,
Mike
[Edited for spelling]
Philosophically, I agree with what Alex said about karma and rebirth in Buddhism and about the world of Samsara as basically an animal realm of reproductive competition, with mother nature "red in tooth and claw" as the saying goes.
As a practical matter -- the matter of how to begin serious Buddhist practice -- I would say to you "Don't worry about theories yet. Engage the practical disciplines that have been refined over many millennia and then see what happens."
In my own case, I began Zen practice without any belief in karma or rebirth. In that regard my basic approach was consistent with what Stephen Batchelor discussed in his book "Buddhism without Beliefs."
But when my practice deepened and began to bear fruit, this changed. Karma and rebirth were recognized as simple facts that could not be denied. It's not a matter of belief now; it's simply obvious.
Practice now!
Regards,
Mike
[Edited for spelling]
- NigelThompson
- Topic Author
16 years 2 months ago #53403
by NigelThompson
Replied by NigelThompson on topic RE: Karma, rebirth and the meaning of life.
I'm aware that in my daily life, I'm reacting unconsciously. I'm reacting from my reptilian/mammalian brain most of the time. And that's setting me up to have to deal with consequences that I did not intend on a regular basis. This is happening to me right now. As far as I'm concerned that's enough karma and samsara for me.
