Commuter Van Practice

I recently decided to abandon my mot orcyle commute and return to riding in a van.
This van leaves Modesto at 5:15 a.m. and arrives in San Francisco 90 minutes to two hours later. Then, we leave SF at 5:20 p.m. and arrive back in Modesto about two hours later (sometimes sooner). The van is very quiet, everyone is asleep or reading.
So, with each of these trips plus my usual practice of meditating in my office at lunch for about 40 to 60 minutes, I should have a lot of time built in to each week day for practice. (weekends I usually sit two or three times a day unless there is some trip or project consuming my time)
So, for my life at least right now, I do not have the "no time to meditate" complaint. I have the time.
I'll let you all know how this new schedule works out. I can tell I already need to get used to the van sits -- it's hard to find a stable and comfortable sitting position and yesterday and this morning it was impossible to not drift off to sleep constantly. But, while sitting there I will have sensations to note and there will be few distractions to my ability to notice those sensations.
-- Mike Monson

Hey Mike,
Sounds like this can be an excellent opportunity for contemplation, mindfulness-attention, and meditation. I always take the opportunity to meditate when I'm a passenger in an hour or longer care ride. It's generally not quite as deep (meditation) when done this way compared to my regular sits at home. Sometimes it's simply a practice of being completely immersed and rest in the Nowness of the changing environment as we pass a range of things (dairies, mint fields, industrialized areas, or the diversities within the city). Sometimes it requires a little creativity to practice, nonetheless, it's always a welcomed time for more practice.

Do let us know how it goes for you and any discoveries found along the way.
- Tina

Tina
Your reply makes me think about my sits at home or anywhere else and I don't think I've ever really had a "deep" meditation. Even on reatreats at zen and vipassana centers. I've never gone into a "jhana" or anything like that.
The deepest I've ever gotten really is lately i've been able to really stay concentrated on each sensation in my body as they arrise and pass, but when that happens it still doesn't feel very deep (just very attentive).
I wonder when or if that will ever change.

Mike, don't worry about if it feels "deep," the important thing is that you are consistent with practicing and you're seeing results. Jeez... I remember just a few months ago you had a hard time keeping concentrated focus. Now look how far you've come in this practice!
As you continue to develop your concentration, and relax into it, you'll then notice the meditative state will naturally become deeper.

Coming home last night I tried much harder to get into noticing my sensations with as much speed and precision as possible.
It is a different experience in a way than at home alone in a quiet room. At home my body and it's sensations feel very close, very intimate. In the van it's like the are slightly out in space somewhere so it takes an extra effort to find and lock into them.
But, after about 10 minutes (before we even got onto the Bay Bridge) I was able to get really into it in a slightly different but really powerful way. Then, the woman behind me (I was sitting in the front passenger seat) tapped me on the shoulder and asked me to turn up the a/c. This took me out of my attention space and it took quite a while more to get back into good attention on noting my sensations -- but it did come back.
Also, strangely, this same woman was on several long and very intense phone calls and, while at the same time I was speedily noting sensations I was also VERY tuned into her end of the calls and I felt like I understood every nuance of her speech and could almost imagine what the people on the other end of the phone were saying.
This morning I drove halfway and took a train the other half and haven't really meditated yet., but, still I am noticing this thing that happens more and more now -- songs I hear, things I read, stories people tell, etc., can bring strong chills to my arms, my spine, my scalp and provoke a slight sense of wanting to weep -- this is a pleasant experience and one that I am convinced is part of the sort of pre- or maybe midst A&P place I am in right now.

I just want to say that this is a great idea, Mike. As you may know, I'm a commercial airliner meditator. Go for it anywhere you can.

"
I just want to say that this is a great idea, Mike. As you may know, I'm a commercial airliner meditator. Go for it anywhere you can.

"

I think us "yogis" with normal lives who can't go on retreat but who are still highly motivated need to figure out ways to get it done.
I don't know if anyone has done this, but I think it would be a great idea to just create one's own retreat by carving out 4 to 10 hours or so per day on a weekend for sitting. It could be tailored to suit one's own schedule and needs but still result in a lot of extra time for sitting. So, it wouldn't exactly be a real retreat (in the sense of perfect support for the sitting experience) but it would be the next best thing. There are a lot of ways this could be done.

Well, I believe it is working just fine and I definitely have a sense of things moving along a bit more since I added so much more time each day of noting practice.

Hey Mike, great to hear that this van commute is working out for you. Are you able to get into a full meditation, or is it more of a contemplation or mindful noting practice? If it's a full meditation practice, how does this differ from your at home meditation practice (i.e. depth, focus and concentration, alertness, etc.)?

Khara, thanks for asking (I love to have a place to talk about all this).
Note that I am in total "first gear"mode and concentrating only on noting sensations as completely as possible in order to get to the A&P and then through the next stages to stream entry (thought of course my basic oncentration skills are getting better and better).
RIght now, then, I am very clear on what I am trying to do and the method I am using to do get it done.
So, it is a mindfull noting practice.
And, it really isn't too different from my home practice. Or my practice at work at lunchtime alone in my office. I note the rising and falling of my abdomen and keep aware of the sensations there and if other sensations appear I note those.
Since I have sensations at home, in the office, or in the van, I don't think it is much different, especially after the other passengers have settled down and are quiet. (I find that when the van is moving fast my attentativeness is a bit better)
One thing going on for me right now is very strong energy surges up my spine and out my scalp that twist my neck and cause me to make noises at times. These are strongest at home, less so at work, and only very subtle in the van.
Also, and I'm just now getting this, since I am essentially in public in the van, I have sensations that are unique to that, you know? I noticed last night a sort of warm pressure across my forehead and down my face that is almost always there when i am in public, so I noticed and tried to penetrate that. Of course it went away and changed constantly.
I notice that you refer to something as "full meditation" as opposed to "contemplation or mindful noting practice." You must be referring to a samatha-type meditation practice as opposed to a vipassana type practice. I wonder if these are really "full" vs. "not full" or just two different types of meditations?

Mike! - Yes! - yogis with normal lives who can't go on retreat - I hear that. I structure my days as though they were "days of mindfulness" precisely for this reason. Morning anapana sit, tea, sutras, dharma discussions online, Tenzo duties, consitent mindfulness of household chores, walking meditation, consistent mindfulness of employment/work, yoga, sleep, etc. I will have a week or more home alone so I am ramping up the sitting time, but i want to fire some tea bowls too, so it will be a zazen & chawan week!!
p e a c e,
h a n s e n

Diagnosis: Warm pressure: Jhana Factor: Sukkha
"so I noticed and tried to penetrate that. Of course it went away and changed constantly."
It will do that. Instead, get back to the breath, it will coexist with the object and needs no special attention. Just anchor into the breathing and it will be more apt to persist.
Diagnosis: Energy surges: Jhana Factor: Piiti
"very strong energy surges up my spine" Piiti (in my expereince) has less power to attract the mind, I almost want to be over as soon as it starts, But I have sat through 30 minutes of solid piiti which felt like it lasted 30 hours. Same treatment, anchor into the breath, with both sukkha and piiti the only way to hang with them seems to be staying anchored in the breath.
My main meditation style has always been Thich Nhat Hanh's samatha style, emphasizing effortlessness. Recently I have begun to experimen with the Mahasi Stlye Noting and find that there is a greater degree of fine control, nice.
I find that piiti and sukkha come out of vicara, of the mind staying with the object, which is the precursor to ekkegatta, one-pointedness (4th jhana) so although you atarted you poest sying you didn't get this stuff, when you break it down and look at it, actually you do. I hope you find these remarks encouraging, that is how they are intended!!!!
p e a c e
h a n s e n

han2sen, thanks, very helpful, though I must add that seeing the sensations end and change is the heart of this meditation practice.
When you are talking about jhanas here, is it the vipassana jhanas?

Mike: I'll need a Nikaya # to be able to answer that question, mostly I am based on the Nikayas themselves, not the Buddhaghosa commentaries. I can supply the exact sutta references for what I have stated. These things are general categories, useful in knowing where one is at, but not specific fixed states or anything like that. All precursors of samadhi, which can best be described as a "flow" of energy.
p e a c e - H.

Mike: Wikipedia breaks it out like this: "This description of Vipassana practice is a way of developing vipassana knowledge through direct experience. The vipassana jhanas as taught by U Pandita contrast with the samatha jhanas as described by Buddhaghosa in his work the Visuddhimagga. According to Buddhagosa's method, Jhana practice is separate from vipassana. Ones mind becomes absobed in fixed concentration on the object and the meditator must come out of jhana to practice vipassana. However, jhana as taught by U Pandita allows for insight practice whilst in jhana. The meditators mind does not merge with the object but rather becomes ever more still whilst the flow of experience is still observable and is analysed in terms of the three characteristics." - actually this is incorrect. The jhanas are vividly described in the Nikaya, although I am sure the Viisuddhimagga goes into them too. Vipassana jhanas is a bit of an oxymoron, as a jhana by itself is not directly connected to any wisdom factor or characteristic. There is a different agenda for "samatha" "vipassana" and "both" - continued

Thanks, I'm kind of going with the maps of the vipassana four path model as taught by Kenneth and Dr. Ingram. I think there is controversy all over the place about terminology, etc., but I'm just going with it as they describe it for now. here is a good lay out of it:
web.mac.com/danielmingram/iWeb/Daniel%20...FF-5708E9E4CA15.html
So can you see why I was confused about your reference to the fourth jhana? I'm not practicing samatha so I can't be in that fourth jhana, and, there is no way I'm in the fourth vipassana jhana if you look at the map I've just attached.

In my early practice, even after reading MCTB, I failed to get "into" the maps. I think that was a good thing because I didn't worry about where I was. I just sat. I just practiced. I just took up an object - the tip of my nose as I breathed in and out - and paid attention to that, noticing (but not formally noting) what was happening there. It wasn't too long before I experienced my first fruition. So Mike, hang in there. Just sit and do what you now know is the right thing to do at this point. You can trust this path. Good things will follow.

I'm relaxed and clear right now about what I am doing and feel confiident that all will follow in the best possible way. RIght NOW I feel like I am in the best place of my life. I like the maps, a lot.

Mike: I have been thinking this thing over. So where I am at right now is this: rather than tracking the jhanas as attainments in either model "samatha jhana" or "vipassana jhana" what I am looking at is seeing the individual qualities, the categories, of "jhana factors" and referring to them in Pali, lets take sukkha for example: "sukkha is arising" "sukkha is changing" "sukkha is falling away" like any other thought or feeling. "piiti is arising" etc. "Equimamity is arising" etc etc.

As far as what is taught about vipassana and samatha, most of the statements pro or con for either seems to diverge greatly from any textual source. I am sure once upon a time there was a great Dharma battle where this was hashed out using entirely canonical sources. It has about as much relevance to actual practice as whether or not you believe in the "tooth fairy" - in my humble opinion. My thing is simply read Anapanasati sutta, Satipatana, etc., do it, it works.

p e a c e

h a n s e n

"I notice that you refer to something as "full meditation" as opposed to "contemplation or mindful noting practice." You must be referring to a samatha-type meditation practice as opposed to a vipassana type practice. I wonder if these are really "full" vs. "not full" or just two different types of meditations? - Mike"

Hi Mike,
My reference to "full meditation" was meant to be in regards to depth and your ability to "get into it." No labels or particular method intended. I think my reference to "contemplation or mindful noting practice" was misleading and it's understandable how you would think I was referring to Vipassana. Perhaps "mindfulness" would have been a better way of saying it. My apologies for the confusion here.

From what you have described, it seems that you are indeed "getting into it" and benefiting greatly from this added practice.

Peace & Happiness,

- Tina

Things have changed (of course) a bit since I last wrote on this thread.
Taking the van to work gave me an automatic 3 to 4 hours a day in which I was doing NOTHING but sitting down in a vehicle. Plus, it got me to work 90 minutes early which created more time to sit, to which I often added much of my lunch hour.
-- I think I crossed the A&P while on the van pretty early on, sometime in mid-November I think.
-- I now believe that I've crossed it before at least twice. I can look back at myself at various times in my life "hanging out" at dharma centers and groups while in the dark night, just as Dr. Ingram describes.
-- I'm a little confused about the dark night and eventual equanimity and stream entry and am finding it hard to get any kind of useful advice on same. It seems like this and Ingram's website are more focused on the experience of yogis at stream entry and beyond and desussing the details of that experience and there isn't much interest in the day-to-day nitty gritty of pre-stream entry practice. this is not meant to blame, this is the way it is I think, so it is up to me to figure out how to get what I need, and I will.
-- while I know I've been in dark night a lot in the past I also think I may have hit equanimity a time or two before falling back because i didn't have a clue what was going on.
-- for me, now, at least, the dark night isn't negatively effecting my normal daily life (I feel fine basically) it just changes the quality of my meditation and the nature of my attention and focus.
-- I continue to be fascinated by formal zen practice while at the same time repelled by actually once again going back to a zen center for formal practice. this is annoying but I feel on the verge of a solution.
continued

-- my practice for now has returned to a very open "choiceless awareness" that was initially inspired by J. Krishnamurti but is now also seasoned by my recent experience with Mahasi style noting.
-- for me, choiceless awareness creates a constant empty head in which I am completely open to whatever my present experience may be. There is freedom in this but also no anchor. My koan now is whether or not this brings stream entry or non-dual awareness or both or whether it even matters as long as my suffering is gone for one in-breath or one out-breath.
love,
Michael

" I'm a little confused about the dark night and eventual equanimity and stream entry and am finding it hard to get any kind of useful advice on same. "

Mike, what is it that you want to talk about? I think Kenneth and others here will go out fo their way to help if they can. At least that's been my experience. I remember being in territory like what you describe. It's sometimes painful and very often confusing. It's the first time you're going through it. It looks endlesss and it seems as if nothing you do, or can do, will make a difference. So how can we help?

My intuition about what you describe tells me to tell you to keep doing your vipassana practice. Keep investigating your own experience at the most detailed level you can find. That's how I got through it. And you will get through it.

I wish you the best.

Mike,

I don't know if this helps, but if you've gotten to equanamity in the past, then theoretically you should be able to access that level again, in each meditation. I'd say do the thermometer - or at least notice that you are progressing through the levels and falling back down again with what you are practicing now.

D

Michael: i know this is of limited consolation, but i totally empathize with where you are, where you want to be, how you feel about being here and wanting to be there; the intermittant hope of progress and the reconsiliation with defeat; the knowledge that we create our own suffering; and the intimacy of these desires and suffering. Actually sometimes when i read Daniels book or various blogs i feel sorry for myself that i am not at those stages...but then i read the comments from all the people on this site and realize that the people on this site are filled with loving kindness, reach out to people freely, with no alternative motive but the desire for happiness for others. i believe, as corny as it sounds, this love for one another and ourselves is the undivadable vital source in the universe, and your desire to become one with it is your source that you have. Right now within you.

tim