Mystery

Below is an excerpt from an email exchange with Jake St. Onge in response to his astute comments about rigpa. I thought the rest of you might have something to say about it...

Hi Jake,

I confess that I don't know what rigpa is. I don't even know how I know it's rigpa. But it isn't like anything else. And it's always here, should I happen to notice. Because it is so reliable, it has revolutionized my way of being in the world. Sanity is always available now, for the simple price of remembering. Distraction, which is to say everything I would conventionally refer to as "my life," is just a flow of impermanence arising and disappearing within the vastness of perfection. Sometimes my life is good. Sometimes I hate it. But it's always possible to place it within the context of the absolute perfection of buddha nature. I just don't know what I would do without it!

(cont)

One thing to look for is that buddha nature is present during every moment of every day, so it isn't affected by your mind state or the stratum of mind that you happen to be in. You may find that it is easier to be non-distracted while in the 11th ñana. But that says nothing about buddha nature; it just says that you are less distracted in the Equanimity ñana, which is to be expected. I find that remembering to notice buddha nature has no affect on my stratum of mind. As soon as I become distracted again (in this context, even noticing what stratum of mind I am in requires being distracted from rigpa), I find that I am just where I was before the rigpa moment. The time-bound reality does its thing whether you are noticing buddha nature or not. The implication of this is that noticing rigpa does not lead to physio-energetic development. That requires concentration, deeply cultivated, usually over a period of years. Paradoxically, then, I believe you can realize your buddhahood without being an arahat. And vice versa. Your buddhahood is inherent and only requires recognition in real time. But arahatship is jhanic attainment and must be developed just as any time bound process must be developed through time.

Kenneth

Hey Kenneth!

How you going mate? Well I hope. From the above, it sounds like you're doin well - regardless circumstance! Glad to hear.

"The implication of this is that noticing rigpa does not lead to physio-energetic development."

That's thing, isn't it? I have frequently noticed that when I am in Rigpa, there is a lot of pranic flow in the central channel. One of my informal teachers, a senior student of Norbu Rinpoche, who does not teach the traditional system per se, having studied with many teachers from many traditions, makes a direct correlation between Rigpa and the pranic energies - and thus, Karmic consciousness (dualistic mind), being inactive, with the energies in the central channel, and raised to the crown chakra - in other words, kundalini phenomena active in the circuit.

I wonder, since you have noticed that you can enter Rigpa at any time and yet not affect a shift in stratum of mind (jhana), that this is so because your energetic circuit is already complete, and thus, you can access Rigpa with minimal noticeable 'system' changes, at will?

My current hypothesis is that frequent access to Rigpa will result in path-movement. This is like a tuning fork or some other strong electromagnetic force actiing on a weaker system; thus, influencing it, and pulling it up to its level. Or indeed, simply flooding the system with more juice, giving it frequent kick-starts and promoting its development and acceleration.

[cont.]

Traditionally, it seems clear that the Dzogchen and Mahamudra tradition believe one does not need to be an Arahat to realize Rigpa, or even stabilize it. But I'm definitely leaning in the direction of Rigpa having an entrainment affect on the nervous system and promoting kundalini awakening and thus path-moment.

I will put the question to my friend and see what he says.

P.S. I don't know what Rigpa is either. It is clear that it IS, though. ;-P

In kind regards,

Adam.

I've notices cool sensations on the crown of my head - similar to what I identify with "Rada" energies in Vodun. In Afro-Carribean religions, "cool" energies are identified with calmness, composure, serenity, and purity.

Kenneth was quick to tell me not to identify those sensations as Rigpa, they seem to be side-effects.
D

Kenneth - " ... The implication of this is that noticing rigpa does not lead to physio-energetic development. That requires concentration, deeply cultivated, usually over a period of years. Paradoxically, then, I believe you can realize your buddhahood without being an arahat. And vice versa. Your buddhahood is inherent and only requires recognition in real time. But arahatship is jhanic attainment and must be developed just as any time bound process must be developed through time ... "
- Very interesting Kenneth - I'm starting to understand what you mean when you use the word 'development'. I think I misunderstood what you meant in "The 4 Paths of Enlightenment Model" thread. Leads me to wonder if there are specific describable and reproducible physio-energetic developments that relate to each stage of insight and by extension to each 'path' leading to arahatship. I wonder also if each "path of enlightenment" does indeed related to a physico-energetic 'path' or 'circuit'.

Adam - " ... My current hypothesis is that frequent access to Rigpa will result in path-movement. This is like a tuning fork or some other strong electromagnetic force actiing on a weaker system; thus, influencing it, and pulling it up to its level. Or indeed, simply flooding the system with more juice, giving it frequent kick-starts and promoting its development and acceleration."
- Could you please explain what you mean by path-movement?

Thanks.

Michael

Hi Michael!

Path-movement is, as I understand it, just movement through the 4-path model - development.

In kind regards,

Adam.

"Adam: ...I have frequently noticed that when I am in Rigpa, there is a lot of pranic flow in the central channel. One of my informal teachers, a senior student of Norbu Rinpoche, who does not teach the traditional system per se, having studied with many teachers from many traditions, makes a direct correlation between Rigpa and the pranic energies - and thus, Karmic consciousness (dualistic mind), being inactive, with the energies in the central channel, and raised to the crown chakra - in other words, kundalini phenomena active in the circuit.

I wonder, since you have noticed that you can enter Rigpa at any time and yet not affect a shift in stratum of mind (jhana), that this is so because your energetic circuit is already complete, and thus, you can access Rigpa with minimal noticeable 'system' changes, at will? ..."

Hi Adam,
I think you are on to something here. But as they say "the devil is in the details." To say that there is "a direct correlation between Rigpa and the pranic energies" is correct, I believe, just so long as we understand that correlation is NOT causation. When, as you said, dualistic mind is inactive, it is only natural that the subtle energies in the body will begin to renormalize to the natural state. Certainly in my own case, this is true. However, this is not an instantaneous event. The energetic changes begin and then take some time (minutes) to complete. But Rigpa is "open eyes" immediate. It does not arise due to causes, and it does not in itself produce any causal effects or suffer from conditioned genesis. The cessation of dualistic mind is what produces the effects. Rigpa is what, metaphorically speaking, "blows your mind." (Nirvana is the "blowing out" of just that.)

Hey Gozen!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. Yeah, correlation, definitely not causation. ;-P I think we can say Rigpa or the inherent wakefulness of reality - and to realize it or 'know' it here and now, rather than being distracted from what is obvious here and now in ordinary awareness - is foundational and causeless - its already here and so can't be caused; it is by virtue of its existence of beingness that we can communicate and be aware of this text before our eyes. However, just because it is always present does not mean we '˜know' it or notice its presence and the true nature of our mind. To simply be in a relaxed, thought free state is not the same as to '˜know' or recognize Rigpa. Rigpa seems to be more than just our natural state, which is always causelessly present, Rigpa is more than a name, it is also a verb, it is an '˜act of knowing or recognition' of the nature of mind here and now - not of ego - it is to '˜know' and recognize this natural state in real time. Most of us do not, even when we are relaxed and thought free, as we can see when watching TV, or gently gazing at a camp fire. Gazing at a fire in particular or wall-gazing or sky-gazing are probably the best conditions to notice rigpa though, aside from direct pointing out from an adept.

The problem seems to be that we are distracted from this wakefulness or our inherent nature by dualistic thought or dualistic consciousness - Rigpa or our natural state is simply present, but unnoticed, and more accurately stated, '˜obscured' by dualistic consciousness, which may be as simple as the presence of thought. Point being, while dualistic consciousness is active, we can observe that the pranas are active in pingala and ida. When dualistic thought and consciousness is inactive, we can observe the pranas have entered into the central channel, and thus, there is no longer any obscuration of our inherent nature - Rigpa is unvailed.

[cont.]

Some tantric practices work on bringing the pranas into the central channel, thus, revealing the clear light of the nature of mind - Rigpa. Other practices work on directly cutting-through dualistic consciousness like sky-gazing or pointing out instructions etc., and one may instantly notice wakefullness as it is and always was here and now. In so doing, it seems there is a process where the pranas enter the central channel, removing obsurations. So Rigpa is always present regardless of our condition of mind, yet it is obscured and goes unnoticed. Further, dualistic consciousness seems directly dependent upon the whether or not the pranas are in our out of the central channel '“ which does indeed seem to have a symmetrical causal relationship.

In kind regards,

Adam.

"Some tantric practices work on bringing the pranas into the central channel, thus, revealing the clear light of the nature of mind - Rigpa. Other practices work on directly cutting-through dualistic consciousness like sky-gazing or pointing out instructions etc., and one may instantly notice wakefullness as it is and always was here and now. In so doing, it seems there is a process where the pranas enter the central channel, removing obsurations. So Rigpa is always present regardless of our condition of mind, yet it is obscured and goes unnoticed. Further, dualistic consciousness seems directly dependent upon the whether or not the pranas are in our out of the central channel '“ which does indeed seem to have a symmetrical causal relationship.

In kind regards,

Adam."

Hi Adam,
We are in substantial agreement here. One difference is how we use the term "natural state." I have quite arbitrarily defined it as being the same as Rigpa because it can be considered the "ground" state or the fundamental state. I do not mean that this state is true for someone living a "natural" lifestyle or merely going about a "normal" day. What you so accurately call "noticing" or "knowing" is how Rigpa is Realized. Another terminological issue is whether the word "state" is even applicable to Rigpa. Ordinary waking, dreaming, and sleeping are states. The shamatha jhanas are states. But Rigpa can be known inside all of these states. So perhaps we should differentiate it some way. Can we say Rigpa is the State that contains all other states? Or Rigpa is the Condition of all conditional states?

Regards,
Gozen

"Hi Adam,
I think you are on to something here. But as they say "the devil is in the details." To say that there is "a direct correlation between Rigpa and the pranic energies" is correct, I believe, just so long as we understand that correlation is NOT causation. When, as you said, dualistic mind is inactive, it is only natural that the subtle energies in the body will begin to renormalize to the natural state. Certainly in my own case, this is true. However, this is not an instantaneous event. The energetic changes begin and then take some time (minutes) to complete. But Rigpa is "open eyes" immediate. It does not arise due to causes, and it does not in itself produce any causal effects or suffer from conditioned genesis. The cessation of dualistic mind is what produces the effects. Rigpa is what, metaphorically speaking, "blows your mind." (Nirvana is the "blowing out" of just that.)
"

Hi Gozen and Adam,

Confirming what you guys are saying because there is seems some ambiguity. Rigpa is realized due to a cessation of the dualistic mind. This cessation of the dualistic mind causes or is caused by the pranic energies flowing in the central channel. These energetic changes can be noticed before and after the suddeen Rigpa event.

Adam - With your noting - "Rigpa is more than a name, it is also a verb, it is an '˜act of knowing or recognition' of the nature of mind here and now, it is to '˜know' and recognize this natural state in real time. Most of us do not, even when we are relaxed and thought free, as we can see when watching TV, or gently gazing at a camp fire. Gazing at a fire in particular or wall-gazing or sky-gazing are probably the best conditions to notice rigpa though, aside from direct pointing out from an adept. "
This is sort of willful entering of Rigpa; do you think this requires development of the energetic circuit? I am confused by the relationships presented.

Hi Gozen!

Thanks for the ongoing sharing of your interesting thoughts!

"I have quite arbitrarily defined it as being the same as Rigpa because it can be considered the "ground" state or the fundamental state"

Yes, I think this well composed and points to the nature of things. Since it is acausal and and non-contingent and thus, self-existent, there can never be a time when it was not, nor when it will not be; hence, by definition, it cannot change, and so must be the very ground of reality itself. When we start to point this, Buddhists get nervous and start to imagine some kind of permanent 'thing', essence or atman. But clearly it is not a thing, any more than space is a thing (putting aside ideas of dark matter or space-time warping in the presence of large bodies of mass and the like.). Moreover, it is not simply blankness or a vacuum either, rather it is something like empty, cognizant-clarity-awareness-sentience-life-fullness-being itself, that just is, and it is this that is that which apprehends the apparent phenomena of space, objects, things, dimension(s) and impermanence. So, we seem to have a space of awareness that apprehends and contains all things, with all things being the dynamic energetic display of the aware space itself; and thus, not separate or distinct from it.

[cont.]

When we are thinking, awareness is aware of thinking; when we are not thinking, awareness is aware of not thinking. When there is distraction, there is being lost in distraction, and yet, we are conscious of being absorbed in that, if nothing else. What is it that is aware at all times during this awareness? Wakefulness. It is always present regardless of our mind state. However, it is a matter of recognition, is it not?

What is it that obscures this basic sentient ground of reality; obsures our own 'clear-seeing' of the nature of things? Distraction, right? Because we already are it, but fail to notice it, right? This is where I think Kenneth has done a great job in pointing to the simpleness of not thinking, and what is left is the ground itself. It is an effective separation practice - a Rushan. By practicing this, we are setting up conditions for the noticing of what is here and now, or put another way, cutting through the distraction.

I think for most people, this ground is not immediately recognized in the thought free state. I have been practicing the thought free state for most of the morning and day, and it is clear that in so doing, the pranas move into the central channel and my mind becomes progressively naked in luminous clarity of wakefulness - the sense of subjectivity disolves, and impersonal lucidity presents from the background the to the foreground. it is like a presence of pristine freshness of wakefulness increasingly becomes the dominant foreground of clarity with an accompanying energetic presence of awareness.

[cont.]

I then notice that there is a deep fundamental stillness that is now recognized and known, and now as I am writing and thinking, I am finding that the stillness persists, and that it always was there, just unnoticed. It is like 'I' as formless presence-stillness just am, an infinitely deep stillness without ground or end, and thinking is like waves of ripples on the surfaces of my mind which I kind of see as a heads-up digital display - not literarily of course - and so I as stillness witness the thinking, and yet am untouched by it. This is what I think is meant by recognizing Rigpa through the 24 hour cycle, regardless of the conditions of mind - thoughts, dreams, and dreamless sleep.

Gozen, I completely agree that 'state' is problematic. I just use it because the Tibetans do - natural state, natural condition, nature of mind - to denote, that which is completely natural to us, and thus not contrived or caused by an act of 'me', ego or a spiritual practice - something that already is. It is like when dust settles in the air or sediment in the water, what you have left is the natural pristine clarity of the natural, 'impersonal' condition of the water or air - this groundless, formless sentient fresh luminosity.

[cont.]

Personally, I would be careful about using Rigpa as the sate that contains all others, even though I think it fair to say it does, like our mind contains our thoughts; I would say it is that which apprehends all states, conditions, thoughts, sensations and displays. That way it is not considered to be a dimension or to be something in and of itself. Is seeing a thing, or hearing a thing? Or does seeing just apprehend the thing. Conventionally, it is a process of cause and effect. What if there was no person there to see, and no thing that was seen, and yet, there still was just hearing, just seeing, just experience, being, existence? Ultimately, there is no proces, thing or person that sees, is there? Just experience, but there is no one home who experiences. ;-P To recognize that is to recognize the nature of things, is it not?

In kind regards,

Adam.

Hi Gary!

"Rigpa is more than a name, it is also a verb, it is an '˜act of knowing or recognition" - Adam.

I should be careful about this, as it is very subtle. It would be more properly stated, I should think, as an 'event' or an 'instance' of knowing or recognition of the nature of mind. So we are not just talking about the nature of mind but actually an instance of recognizing it in real time. It is like me walking around the house looking for my glasses for an hour and getting frustrated because I need them and must leave the house for an appointment. At some point, I simply notice they are on my head, so it is the moment or instance of recognition that I am pointing to. To realize Rigpa is to KNOW Rigpa; not to know of it, but to realize it here and now in this very moment. It was always there, but went unnoticed or unknown until now.

[cont.]

"This is sort of willful entering of Rigpa; do you think this requires development of the energetic circuit? I am confused by the relationships presented." - Gary.

This is the question, that I am not qualified to answer. I have some thoughts though. I think by practicing concentration, as Kenneth has said, the energies enter the channel, and we get path-movement. Also, by practicing inactivity of the dualistic consciousness, through following the breath, sky-gazing, gazing at a fire or wall, or just sitting in shikantaza or mahamudra non-meditation '“ just letting be, the energies enter the channel also; and do so with direct correspondence to inactivity of the thinking mind, or stillness thereof. In either case, the dualistic mind may collapse, revealing one's original face. Additionally, one may practice kundalini yoga, or Tibetan tantric practices working with the pranas, causing them to enter the central channel and revealing the clear light of the nature of mind. So, clearly one can affect the energies that are the basis of the dualistic mind - that is a big part of tantric mahamudra, as I understand it.

[cont.] edited for clarity

Additionally, one can cut straight through the dualistic consciousness through pointing-out instructions from an adept, which will bring instant recognition of the Rigpa; however, often not for long. So, one can clearly recognize rigpa while the energies are still out of the central channel. However, I hypothesise, they will instantly enter the channel as a result, and then exit as one again becomes distracted into dualistic thought.

It is this relationship of the pranas and the dualistic consciousness that I suppose results in path-movement and energetic development from entering Rigpa. So according to this thesis, we needn't practice 1st or 2nd gear to get path-moment. Pretty much every person I've ever met or read about who has any kind of spiritual progress has corresponding energy movement in the central channel.

In kind regards,

Adam. edited for spelling

"Kenneth:
I find that remembering to notice buddha nature has no affect on my stratum of mind. As soon as I become distracted again (in this context, even noticing what stratum of mind I am in requires being distracted from rigpa), I find that I am just where I was before the rigpa moment. The time-bound reality does its thing whether you are noticing buddha nature or not. The implication of this is that noticing rigpa does not lead to physio-energetic development. That requires concentration, deeply cultivated, usually over a period of years. Paradoxically, then, I believe you can realize your buddhahood without being an arahat. And vice versa."

This I find very much resonating with my own experiences and observations. It is a mistake to think that experiencing something that is beyond the mundane morality and efforts will automatically build high morality and disciplined energy. I think that this is a mistake that has widely spread in many enlightenment traditons as it is so central theme.

@Gozen & @Adam

Please correct me if I am wrong, but this is how I see and experience Dzogchen meditation.
When I sit, I let everything remain in its normal condition without trying to modify or manipulate anything. Naturally, a natural meditative state dawns and settles on its own. The only effort is to remain undistracted in this natural state.

As it goes on, it appears that these thoughts or mental images appear within this pristine awareness (natural state or base). They rise from it, abide in it and return to it. It also becomes clear that the nature of thoughts is not different than the nature of pristine awareness. Their relationship is that of the ocean (pristine awareness) and its waves (thoughts, phenomena).

When there is a clear recognition that all phenomena arise, abide and dissolve in primordial awareness, this moment to moment recognition is what I call Rigpa.

The main difference with Vipassana, is that in Vipassana we note the arising and passing away of phenomena, while in Dzogchen we recognize that they arise, abide and dissolve (or self liberate) within primordial awareness until it becomes clear that all phenomena are a magical display of mind.

For years, I still could not understand what happened to this primordial awareness during deep sleep '“ and this puzzled me. I am stating to understand. It is actually always present, but since it is void of (phenomenal) content, no memory is registered. This lack of memory is the reason why, deep sleep looks like a gap in consciousness from the point of view of wakefulness.

-Alex

Hey Alex!

I would think that is in accordance with view.

From what I gather as to the 24 hour cycle, it is something that is developed. People like Jeff B. and others I have met over the years have consciousness through the complete cycle. Some have made it a criteria for enlightenment, but I don't know about that.

In kind regards,

Adam.