Abdomen breathing sensations

Dear Kenneth (and others who may have experience with this), I just wanted to ask you about this.

When I relax and let go, I seem to breathe quite shallowly and rapidly, and the sensations in my abdomen are very subtle. Maybe I'm just habitually holding tension in that area. I'm not sure.

Right now as I type this, I'm aware of rising and falling of abdomen. Somewhat rapid, but it's there. Often during my meditation, it seems to disappear. Then I just try to pay attention to the field of sensations in that area. It's less like watching the ocean with its constant waves, and more like watching a pond with occasional fish poking up. (I do get tingling or qi sensations but I don't follow them much. Following them often makes them recede. Moreover, they're often not around the abdomen.)

Yesterday (and a few times last week), I felt that nama was so much more accessible than rupa that I confess that for the last 5 or 6 minutes I just experimented with attending to nama and noting that. It felt so much easier to note 'thinking, thinking' and 'feeling, feeling' than to note 'rising, falling'. (A little strange at first since the noting itself was nama. But I just ignored that.) But I'm trying to stick with the abdominal sensations of breathing as much as possible. There are many benefits to placing the attention in the abdomen, I feel. But I'm probably a 'head' person or something. Just wondering what you tell people who are like this. If it's, 'keep at it', that's fine.

Hope this isn't too rambling. Thank you for any feedback.

Well, here's my rambling answer: I long ago gave up abdomen-feeling and I never could learn to note properly as it felt unnatural to me. I'm a confirmed "head person"

I always had the most luck, progress, what have you, when paying attention to the sensation of the breath in my head. The tip of my nose at first, but soon after the focus became the sensations created by breathing in and out all throughout my head. That sounds strange but it's what led me into the jhanas, and I can recall very clearly how that same sensation led me to my first fruition. It's sort of like blowing up a balloon because it invokes that same "fuzzy" kind of feeling. I know I'm not making much sense Nigel, but what I'm trying to say is I think we may have the same profile when it comes to what to pay attention to. Maybe you can find an "all about the head" kind of feeling? Look in your sinuses as you breathe (yes, inside your head), around your nose, in the front of your head in your face area, or at the very center of your forehead.

I'm sure the abdomen is a great location to meditate on as you breathe and I know a lot of teachers tell you to do that, but just never works for me.

All things make an appearence in the same manner just the speed of the appearance changes. In the past I tried to pick objects that close to edge of my ability in terms of penentrating them (consistently noticing the fluctions), noting always seem to get in the way so I notice and not note. My ability fluxuates during the session and over time, therefore the object changed accordingly. Also things that were once solid can and do break up. Interest is a benifical factor, so my theory is an aversion to or preference to one object over another except for the speed or broadness of attention reveals the quality of equanimity, without sufficient equanimity the interest is divided between observation and the object.

All this said I think in some ways this process just works, so just doing it is what really matters. What I have said is just a personalized rationalization that ramped things up after finding some objects (eg walking meditation) boring, so whatever gets you doing it well is obviously working, and that is what matters.


[edit ] I should also note much of my practice now is choiceless awareness, accepting the variations present. I revert to an object when my concentration is not so good.

Thanks very much, Chris. I do get alot more sensations about the head. Even now as I inhale there's a subtle pressure about the forehead. Inhaling it seems to go out through the crown and forehead. And there are other sensations as well. Thanks again for the advice. Very much appreciated!

"All this said I think in some ways this process just works, so just doing it is what really matters. What I have said is just a personalized rationalization that ramped things up after finding some objects (eg walking meditation) boring, so whatever gets you doing it well is obviously working, and that is what matters.
"

Interesting points, Gary.

This doesn't feel like an aversion, though on some level it could be. Just not getting alot of sensations connected to breathing down there in a really consistent way. Actually today, after typing this, was okay. It varies quite a bit.

Anyway, thanks for your comment.

I've decided to stick with the abdomen for the time being even though it's fleeting and I get clearer sensations around the nose, lip, and head..

The honest reason?

I consulted the Yi Jing and it indicated that staying with the abdomen and being patient was the right way for now. I could try to couch it in more rational, logical terms, but this is the truth. So. There it is.

"
I long ago gave up abdomen-feeling and I never could learn to note properly as it felt unnatural to me. I'm a confirmed "head person"
"

Sorry for bringing up such an old post.

First of all congrats cmarti. I was reading your thread Part the Third and it is very exciting. I then remembered reading this post about how you note the breath that is at the nose and head instead of the abdomen.

Did you continue this way all the way up to your recent stage?

I can never really get the abdomen thing to work for myself either. I actually started meditating that way and then I went on a Goenka retreat and they showed me the Anapana technique of focusing on the breath at the nostrils. This resonated with me well.

So I always wondered- why not take this nose/head breathing and add Mahasi noting to it. Seems like it could be just as good as abdomen noting.

Does anyone else agree?

thanks

"I was reading your thread Part the Third and it is very exciting. I then remembered reading this post about how you note the breath that is at the nose and head instead of the abdomen.

Did you continue this way all the way up to your recent stage?"


Anthony, yes, the breath sensations at the entrance to my nose have been a staple all along. When I feel a need to quiet the mind that is what I do. That technique is what I used almost exclusively to gain first path/stream entry. It just seems to work for me - but I don't think there's one way to do this stuff and that object may not work for everyone. I found it by experimenting, so I would offer that folks should play around a bit with just which objects seem to be most effective to note.