About "Projection"

This is a place for comments or questions about the dharma talk "Projection," which I recorded and uploaded today, 13JAN2010. Here is the link to the talk:

www.divshare.com/download/10163336-c6a

You can listen to it on the player built into the hosting site (just click the "play" button) or you can download the mp3 and listen to it on your own mp3 player.

May all beings awaken in this lifetime,

Kenneth

Very nice Kenneth!

Interestingly enough, I was giving my wife a "mini-lesson" on the Witness and Awareness, when you posted this.

Michael

nice presentation style - relaxed and confident
I still don't get the witness and awareness but your description of "primordial awareness" was helpful and made that concept make a little more sense.

Solid.

What the talk has done for me is brought up more examples of the mind trying to conceptualize the witness and the unborn. I don't have a conscious idea of the experience, so the mind tries to conceptualize this.

I'm not sure I "get" how the witness does not care whether Andrew lives or dies, but there is definitely awareness...a-l-w-a-y-s.

Andrew

Could someone please e-mail me this dharma talk? I'm in East Asia and the hosting site does not work here without a subscription.

Gmail allows attachments of up to 25 MB. I also have a MSN shared folders for larger files. Please PM me if you're willing to do this and I'll give you my address.

Thanks! I'd been praying for rain, and here it is.

"Could someone please e-mail me this dharma talk? I'm in East Asia and the hosting site does not work here without a subscription.

Gmail allows attachments of up to 25 MB. I also have a MSN shared folders for larger files. Please PM me if you're willing to do this and I'll give you my address.

Thanks! I'd been praying for rain, and here it is."

I'd be happy to, Nigel. It just so happens that the file is 24.5 meg, so we're just in under the wire! (I have your gmail address, so if you don't get an email from me in the next ten minutes, email or PM me and we'll figure it out.)

Where are you in East Asia?

Kenneth

"I'd be happy to, Nigel. It just so happens that the file is 24.5 meg, so we're just in under the wire! (I have your gmail address, so if you don't get an email from me in the next ten minutes, email or PM me and we'll figure it out.)

Where are you in East Asia?

Kenneth"

no need - download.yousendit.com/TzY3V0o1MHdCSnFGa1E9PQ

Thanks very much, Kenneth. I've received it. I appreciate this!

I live in Hong Kong.

You're welcome, Nigel.

Thanks, Mikael. It's good to have a tech-savvy crowd around here. I didn't know about yousendit.com until now, but it looks like a great service.

Kenneth

Thanks, Kenneth - this was great to listen to, in fact I'm going to try and listen again later this evening to cherry-pick some of the info you shared. Are these talks going to be a part of the regular fare here at KFD in the the future?

I really enjoyed the opening portion of your talk - it reminded me of how radically my perception has changed over the past couple of years regarding what it means to be an arahat. I was initially skeptical of anyone making such claims because I had bought in to the common belief that anyone who was fully awake would by definition be a "superperson". This of course was based on all of the fantastic stories and feats attributed to enlightened beings in the past.

Thanks to you, Daniel and others who have come out of the closet and shared openly about your development I now consider an awakened being to be someone who has come to know experience as it truly is via the natuaral, organic, phycho-physio process of "completing the circuit" and opening all of the body-mind channels to allow the chi/iife force/kundalini, etc. to freely flow. Enlightenment, as I now use the term is a life-long, infinite process of developing one's body and mind to its full potential that extends beyond awakening.

Exceptional insight to the true nature of life and experience? You betcha. Superpersons? Nahhhhh.

I'm still struggling with the concepts of consciousness, awareness, witness, etc., but hopefully these wil clear up for me in good time..

Best,

John

Hi John,

I'm so glad you liked it, and yes, I hope to add more audio content in the future. The BGeeks interview with Vince really helped me to get over the hump in terms of understanding that these talks don't have to be perfect and they don't even always have to be good; I just have to tell "my truth" as the popular saying goes, and be satisfied with that. Over time, if I talk enough, I may occasionally say something that someone will find useful. Meanwhile, the talks give us a basis for discussion and some focus for our online community. If you have any suggestions for future talk topics, please let me know.

What you wrote here about your new understanding of what enlightenment might mean is music to my ears. One of my main goals in coming out of the closet is to normalize enlightenment and thereby make it accessible to everyone. The withholding of information in order to preserve egos or power structures is revolting to me. I want to see lots more disclosure from the enlightened folks, so we can all understand what we're up against and so everyone can feel empowered to wake up ASAP. I have no more patience with spooky, creepy guru types who drone on about how they are the only ones who have ever understood "The Truth," even as they hide behind titles and robes and reclusive lifestyles. "Oh, f__k you," I want to say. "Go get a relationship and a job. Go to work at the middle school, teaching kids English or social studies, and then come back and tell me how tough you are. I double dare ya!"

"Exceptional insight to the true nature of life and experience? You betcha. Superpersons? Nahhhhh. " -n8sense

Good one!

Kenneth

"Oh, f__k you," I want to say. "Go get a relationship and a job. Go to work at the middle school, teaching kids English or social studies, and then come back and tell me how tough you are. I double dare ya!"

Okay, that one made me spew iced tea from my nostrils! LOL!

Thank you Kenneth for this excellent pointer.

I also found very interesting the distinction made between awareness and consciousness.

For years my mistake had been to try to develop a form of super awareness. What I realized is that awareness is ever present. We cannot get rid of it. We cannot stop existing.

On the other side, consciousness comes and goes. We might feel sleepy, but aware of the fading away of consciousness.

Now it seems that awareness is even present during deep sleep, but is only aware of blankness. Do you have any thought or experience about that? I am not talking about lucid dreaming or lucid deep sleep, but the fact that a seed of awareness witnesses the peace of deep sleep.

"For years my mistake had been to try to develop a form of super awareness. What I realized is that awareness is ever present. We cannot get rid of it. We cannot stop existing."-Alex

Yes! You've nailed it. All we have to do is recognize what is always here.

"On the other side, consciousness comes and goes. We might feel sleepy, but aware of the fading away of consciousness."

Right. Consciousness comes and goes. Awareness neither comes nor goes.

"Now it seems that awareness is even present during deep sleep, but is only aware of blankness. Do you have any thought or experience about that? I am not talking about lucid dreaming or lucid deep sleep, but the fact that a seed of awareness witnesses the peace of deep sleep."

Yes, Alex, and this is hard to talk about because I don't understand it. But more and more, the awareness is "aware of itself," as it were, during sleep. This is especially likely to happen during retreat or during periods when I'm meditating a lot during daily life, but can happen anytime. My understanding is that it will happen more and more as practice deepens and it is one of the metrics by which advanced practice can be measured, assuming we are so base as to resort to spiritual materialism. (Ha, ha, just kidding. Of course we are!)

Kenneth

"I have no more patience with spooky, creepy guru types who drone on about how they are the only ones who have ever understood "The Truth," even as they hide behind titles and robes and reclusive lifestyles. "Oh, f__k you," I want to say. "Go get a relationship and a job. Go to work at the middle school, teaching kids English or social studies, and then come back and tell me how tough you are. I double dare ya!"

Kenneth"

I couldn't agree more.

Thank you Kenneth, for your reply as well as for your great recording. I love the audio format. IIn this way, the teachings tend to go strait to the heart, bypassing the intellect.

ummm...Im unable to download mp3 or play in the embedded player...

Is this another case of me not being able to follow instructions?

"
ummm...Im unable to download mp3 or play in the embedded player...

Is this another case of me not being able to follow instructions? "

I just tried it and had the same problem. Does anyone understand what might be the problem with divshare?

"I just tried it and had the same problem. Does anyone understand what might be the problem with divshare?"

The sugguestion on this link might be worth a go

www.wetpaintcentral.com/page/Imeem+Music+Player

could try uploading to another free host:

www.rapidshare.com/
www.megaupload.com/

Maybe I'm a bit too late but downloading the projection MP3 doesn't seem to work here.
The two parts of the jhanic arc work fine though.
Is the projection MP3 still available somewhere?