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Please don't prefer unpleasant over pleasant (or vice versa)

  • kennethfolk
  • Topic Author
15 years 11 months ago #55600 by kennethfolk
My friend Andrew asked me about this quote by Reggie Ray:

"Don't think that the real practice of meditation is occurring when you are feeling peaceful, filled with insight and understanding, or deeply inspired. The real practice is occurring when your backside is sore and your legs ache, you are tired and distracted and--although you can't remember why you are here on your cushion and doing this--you continue to work with your breath and try to see what's going on. The 'big moments' of peace and insight are just the karmic fruition of the real work, which is basically grimy, sweaty and rather tedious."

I responded:

Andrew, I disagree with Reggie Ray here, because the implication is that the pleasant experiences are somehow "less-than." As I see it, whatever experience is arising is exactly the right experience for you to be having. If we were to imagine that we are doing it wrong whenever a pleasant experience arises, we would be subtly conditioning ourselves to seek out unpleasant experiences and avoid blissful ones. This is not the way. The fact is, some of the territory to be plumbed, navigated, and traversed in each meditation session is inherently pleasant. Some of the territory is inherently unpleasant. We don't prefer one over the other. We take whatever comes, and let it be.

In your case, as long as you are moving up and down the jhanic arc in each sitting, you are doing it right. I'm very happy with your practice right now. Don't wear a hair shirt. :-) As your practice continues to develop, you will have access to even more wonderful states. Let them be, right alongside the hell realms.

Kenneth
  • Cartago
  • Topic Author
15 years 11 months ago #55601 by Cartago
Hi Ken,
It's been a while since I've posted anything. For me, my difficulty is not preferring one sensation over another, but pursuing sensations which originally brought some kind of movement or development and then imagining that re-working them will lead to further movement. Bit of a giggle really. With this in mind I have to watch very intently for even the subtlest movement toward 'trying' to manipulate the process of observing. I found myself stuck on an A&P like plateau for a little while doing this, thinking that going to a place that would induce a Kundalini rush would push things along. This is not so. I actually got off the plateau recently by ignoring the Kundalini. I now try, concentration being absolutely important in this, to remain centred only on 'I am.' After having some holographic other world experiences and a few void experiences I now have this odd sensation, and it's a sensation not a thought, that I am something other than my body as in, there are sensations over there and this observing state is over here. Look forward to any comments.
Paul
  • kennethfolk
  • Topic Author
15 years 11 months ago #55602 by kennethfolk
Hi Paul,

Great stuff. There are two things I'd like to address in your post:1) The question of preference 2) The fluidity of the locus of awareness

1) It sounds as though you weren't preferring pleasant over unpleasant from a kind of visceral, pleasure-pain principle, but rather from a higher-order, well-reasoned thought that the "kundalini rush would push things along," a thought that you subsequently understood to be inaccurate. But notice: it amounts to the same thing. Trying to manipulate the practice in any way, for any reason, can never lead to optimal progress. That's because you can only be aware of what is happening in this moment. Trying to get this experience to be some way other than it is can only distract you from awareness of how it is. Noticing how it is in this moment is "the door to the door to the door" (B. Hamilton). Reality is stunningly uncompromising in this regard.

2) It's possible to experience consciousness as "coming from" various places once you realize that you can distinguish between subject and object (mind and body). This insight, which first appears as the 1st Insight Knowledge, becomes much deeper as one develops the ability to dwell as the Witness. Notice how flexible it is. Sometimes the locus of awareness appears to be inside your head. Sometimes it appears to be hovering slightly above and behind you. Sometimes it appears to be "over there." At times, it will be more diffuse, at times more contracted. At times, you see that awareness isn't coming from anywhere at all. Awareness is just aware, and is not other than all of manifestation. Let it be as it is and enjoy the ride.

Kenneth
  • Khara
  • Topic Author
15 years 11 months ago #55603 by Khara
Hi Kenneth,

I'm completely in agreement with all that you said.
Nonetheless, I'd like to add my thoughts regarding the above Reggie Ray quote. Since it's only an excerpt from the entire context of which he was speaking, I can only assume that he was speaking within the same context of other articles I've read by him... Generally, he makes the point that we (westerners) are inclined to meditate exclusively from the neck up. He's written a series of articles whereby he addresses what he refers to as: "Western dualism and disembodiment." See articles here: www.dharmamind.net/teachings/RR.html
I think he makes some good points that relate to the Four Foundations Of Mindfulness (referring to Kayagatasati Sutra, Satipatthana Sutra, and Anapanasati Sutra). This wholism of body/mind is often overlooked in our society... and many of those who are new to meditation practice come to the cushion with the expectation of "blissing out" to remove themselves from the stress of day to day life. This being said, I think Reggie Ray is simply reminding people to be "in their body," to be present with the discomforts (without aversion) as they sit.
Interesting to note here, the Hindu yogic practice utilized asanas as preparation training so that the yogi would be better suited for long duration meditation sits.

As for "experiences," they are just that. Experiences. No matter whether pleasant or unpleasant... they are what they are at the moment... just phenomena. As you (Kenneth) said: " We don't prefer one over the other. We take whatever comes, and let it be." - Yes, this is the Way. No attachment, no expectation, no aversion. We can investigate these experiences and see that with further investigation we can come to realize Emptiness. :)

- Tina
  • kennethfolk
  • Topic Author
15 years 11 months ago #55604 by kennethfolk
Thanks for putting Reggie Ray's teaching in context, Tina. I haven't yet read much of his work and didn't intend the comment as a blanket refutation of his ideas, so I'm glad you clarified the point. I'm onboard with Ray's contention, as described by you above, that we do well to stay in our bodies and avoid the temptation to meditate "from the neck up." That's a funny image, and makes me think of a kind of intellectualized approach that amounts more to thinking about meditation than to actually meditating. Not good! :-)

If thinking led to enlightenment, this world would look very different from the one we find ourselves in at present, since nearly everyone I know is a champion thinker. There is a relationship between thought and enlightenment, to be sure, but it has to do with taking our thoughts much less seriously and finding out what is truer than our thoughts. A pointer I like to use in this inquiry is "what would still be true if I couldn't think about it?"

Kenneth
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