Help with my meditation.

Kenneth and I have been corresponding and I am copying what was exchanged between us.


Hi Kenneth.

I have been a member of your forum for a while. I have a question and was wondering if you could help me. I have been meditating for the last 17 years. However, the last few years, I haven't been able to progress much due to ill health.

The last few years, I went through the stage during meditation, where i felt impermanence at each and every sense door. I felt, the eyes were vibrating, and what i saw was vibrating too. then I felt the ear drum vibrating, and what i heard was all breaking up due to vibrations. Regards smell, at times, I could smell very subtle smells, where as at other times, i couldn't smell any thing at all. Regards the tongue, at times, I felt taste, but at times, I couldn't feel any thing. Even the voice, I found I had no control over it. As to the body, there was lots of pain, I felt it was so very sensitive, felt so much of pain.

I also had these experiences when I was living my day to day life. I was one day making tea, when I split a drop on my hand. Immediately, I had this experience, where I saw in a split second, how there was contact, then recognition, as to it being a painful feeling, but there was no aversion towards the painful feeling, just plain awareness.

Another instant I was meditating observing the breath, and what ever comes up at any sense door, when I felt the smell of diesel fumes, there was contact at the nostrils, then recognition as to diesel fumes and then aversion.

While going on a walk, I would see people, and immediately, there would be recognition as to who they were, and then a memory of some thing they did would come up to the surface.

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Right in the middle of all this I felt sick and then due to all the medicines I was taking, I gave up my meditation for a while. It took me a few years to get back to reasonable health.

There after I changed to metta meditation, and did a home retreat.

As I mentioned before, due to the sickness I hadn't done much meditation in a while. Hence, it was like starting up all over again. At the start, I began to feel vibrations all over the body.After a while it began to subside, and there was a lot of tension in the head.Later on the tension in the head, broke up into tiny vibrations.They were like waves, a series of vibrations.

I also had vibrations in the sole of the foot. felt, like a pulse beating.There after there was a lot of pain in the whole body.There was tension around the jaws and the teeth.

Right now, I have been meditating, and find that most of the pains have subsided. Some times, I go through pains, but it all breaks up into fine vibrations.

After a while, as I was feeling a bit better, I changed back to the breath meditation. A few days ago,I was watching the breath, when I had this vision of my palm. There after, I felt pain in my palms and it turned into vibrations.
The next day, I again, felt tension in the head, which began to break up into subtle sensations.
Right now, the sensations seems to have vanished. I can watch the breath without any distractions. The breath is so calm that there are big gaps between the breaths. My mind is so calm that i can just be aware, that there is no other sensation, and when a breath comes up, I am aware of it.One day, I was meditating on the breath for about 45 mins, and I couldn't feel the bottom part of my body at all. Couldn't feel like the legs were there, just a sort of hardness. This is very difficult to explain.

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Even this mornings meditation session, there wasn't any thoughts, but just watched the breath, which is very calm , and at times, I hardly feel it. I am just aware that there is a breath on and off.

Can you please, give me some advice on what I should do now, and where I am right now.

I hope this isn't too long for you.

Thanking you for reading this.

Regards

Upekha.

Hi Uppekha,

My best guess is that you are getting into the 3rd jhana. All of the vibrations and pulses and waves sound like 2nd jhana territory, aka Arising and Passing Away of Phemomena. For now, the instruction is "steady as she goes." If I'm right that you are in the 3rd jhana, there is a potential rough patch dead ahead, between where you are now and the next jhana, which would be 4th. In other words, as you move up through the strata of mind, the "dukkha nanas" (dark night) are between the 3rd and 4th jhanas. This may or may not be a big deal for you; individuals vary. If you are already in the 4th jhana, aka 11th nana (equanimity), it's a different story, in that you are already moving up and down through the rough spot in each sitting. Either way, though, the practice you are doing is serving you well, so keep doing it. Go deep, and notice that in each sitting you are moving up and down through the "jhanic arc." Become aware of the repetitive nature of your sittings. Send me a report of one sitting, along with any specific questions you might have.


Metta,

Kenneth

Hi Kenneth,

Thank you for your detailed response. This morning, I was away from home and hence didn't get a chance to sit. When I next sit for a meditation session, I will let you know what occurs.

I have had instances where I went through periods of pain, after the cycles of vibrations.Thereafter, I come to this stage, where there are sensations in the head, and it is getting very subtle every sitting. Once, even that subsides, I come to this stage, where there is only the breath, with very long intervals in between.

The next time, I sit, I will give you a detailed report.


Thanking you for your time.

with metta

Upekha.

Hi Kenneth,

Yesterday's meditation, at the start, I experienced subtle vibrations in the area on the upper lip, thereafter, those vibrations subsided. Following that, there was only the breath, and my being aware of it, nothing else. Again, the breath was very calm with big gaps between them.

During the second meditation session which was in the evening, again, I felt only the breath. There was a great deal of joy building up. No other sensations. At times, I get this feeling that though I am seated towards a certain direction, I am actually facing another direction.


I find that there are variations to my meditation. Some times, it is more vipassana, and other times, it is samatha.

As to your question regards my having experienced the Dukka nanas, yes, I have gone through them, but right now that doesn't seem to be much of a problem.

The way I have been meditating is that I just sit down and watch what is going on. But if i make a resolution to go back to A&P , I find that I go through all the nanas, and then come to this stage where every thing just calms down, and I am just simply watching the breath.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Upekha.

Hi Upekha,

Thanks for your clear, concise, and detailed reports. I'm glad that you've posted them here on the forum so that others can use them as models for their own reporting.

Your practice is good. The next step is to trace your progress up and down the jhanic arc in each sitting. Think of it as taking a hike up the side of a mountain each afternoon. Each day, each week, you get a little stronger, and you can go a little higher up the mountain. Someday, you will reach the top. After that, you will be such a powerful and skilled hiker that you'll be able to walk to the top of the mountain and back two or three times in one outing. For now, though, you are patient, and content to let your skill and stamina grow naturally. In order to best cultivate that growth, you have to 1) keep your attention focused on the path at your feet, and 2) keep track of where you are in relation to the top and bottom of the mountain. You are already sending excellent reports of #1. From now on, also include #2 type information. Describe in detail how you rose up through the ñanas, reached a peak, then descended through the same territory in reverse order. Notice that if you then continue to sit you will go up and down the jhanic arc again.

Looking forward to your next report,

Kenneth

Hi Kenneth,

Thank you for the detailed instructions. I shall follow it and get back to you.

Upekha.

I spent one whole day on meditation. The sit started with A&P and then felt the vibrations going very fast,where I saw the end of the sensations.Then I went into the pain nanas which subsided after a while. Thereafter, I began to feel vibrations in the head . I could sit for hours watching all of this. After a while, I felt that there were even more subtle vibrations in the head, for which I needed more concentration, so started watching the breath again. After a while, I began to see those subtle vibrations, which started with a feeling of an electric current running around the head.After a while even these sensations subsided.

The are times when I begin to feel vibrations in the eyes.The same with the ear.I had this experience, where I felt even the chair I was seated, vibrating.

At times, I find that when I am eating, the sense of perception is not there. For example, while eating papaya, the taste I got was not the usual taste, seeing inconstancy of perception perhaps?
I notice the same with my hearing, when I am on the phone, I find it difficult to identify the voice.

There are times, when I am asleep in bed, and would get up at about 1 am, and find A&P starting on its own, and then the rest follows.

This morning, the cycles had started on it's own before I sat down, so by the time I sat down, I had moved into the pain nanas. This subsided after a while, and then what was left was the breathing, which had big gaps between them. The body was comfortable. However, I found that after a while, I felt my head being pulled to a side. I don't know if this is correct, but I got this feeling like I was trying to leave the body, but some thing kept pulling me back. This happened a few times. I also got this feeling that, I was turned towards another direction,rather than towards the direction i was facing.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Upekha.

You are doing it right, Upekha. Keep doing it. See how continuous you can keep your attention during the day, on and off the cushion. When you wake up in the morning, do you awaken on an in-breath or an out-breath. Make a resolution as you fall asleep at night to be mindful of the breath as soon as you awaken in the morning. Your first breath conditions your entire day; if you are alert when you wake up, it's easier to stay alert throughout the day. In turn, your last conscious act at night before sleep conditions your first thought upon awakening. Keep the cycle of alertness going by paying attention as your first and last acts of each day. Then fill in the middle.

Kenneth

Hi Kenneth,

Thank you for your advice, I shall follow it.I am hoping to go on retreat this week, and shall report once I get back.

While on retreat, if I begin to experience the head being pulled to a side, ( I have mentioned it in post No , what should I do? This has been happening for years.

With metta

Upekha

"While on retreat, if I begin to experience the head being pulled to a side, what should I do? This has been happening for years."-Upekha

The head movement is not a problem, Upekha. Whatever is happening for you in any given moment is the right experience for you to be having. Break it down into categories of experience and note each phenomenon carefully. For example, if your head is being pulled to one side, you may experience:

1. Body sensations like tension, tightness, hardness, pulling, stretching, pressure, release, aching, softness, coolness, stinging, burning, itching, pulsing, throbbing, burning, tingling. Note each sensation as it arises. If you are noting it, it isn't "you."

2. Each sensation may be categorized as pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral. Note this and notice how rapidly these mental impressions change.

3. Mind states always accompany your experience. When your head moves or sags, you may feel embarrassment, annoyance, shame, disgust, irritation, amusement, joy, happiness, exhilaration, dullness, curiosity, confusion. Note each mind state as you become aware of it. Understand that by carefully observing these changing phenomena, you are experiencing a moment of clarity and freedom with each act of noting. This is part-time enlightenment. If you do it enough and it becomes a habit, you will experience full time enlightenment. Every act of noticing, every act of mental noting is one step closer to enlightenment.

4. You will have thoughts about the head being pulled down. You might see an image in your mind. Note "imaging thought." If you plan to talk to the teacher about it, note "planning thought." If you remember a sitting you had earlier, when the head pulling didn't happen, note "remembering thought." By categorizing your thoughts in this way, you are not lost in the content.

Have a great retreat!

Kenneth

Hi Kenneth.

Thank you for your response. Well, I usually do feel a bit of irritation, as I feel like the mind is trying to leave the body, but it is getting pulled back. The head is usually pulled to a side, and then I have to straighten it. However, I shall follow your advice.

With metta

Upekha.

I had another experience. I was meditating, and felt subtle sensations in the head and around the face. Was feeling warm and was sweating.Next, the attention moved towards the heart. I felt a sort of vapor, and there was a sort of folding in sensation, as if the breath was subsiding and folding in towards the heart.Felt this for about 10 minutes. After I came out of this experience, there was a feeling of well being. Earlier,I used to feel a lot of tension around the head, but after this experience, the tension is gone. The head feels very light.

It seems to be getting more and more difficult to put into words what I am experiencing.

with metta

Upekha

I have been continuing with the meditation, but haven't posted here for a while due to ill health.

When I am meditating, I see this white light in my forehead. Some times, when meditating, the white light changes to a deep red.Of late, I have begun to notice, that within the white light, there appears a black spot.
Should I give any attention to this?

I was under the impression that the Nimitta is always white.Can it change into black?

I have also had this vision, where I see heaps of sticks piled one on top of another. After a while, I saw another bundle of sticks thrown onto the same pile. Is there any significance to this vision, or should I just ignore it.

Would appreciate some advice on how to proceed from Kenneth or any one else.

with metta

Upekha.

Hi Upekha,

What is the aim of your practice? Are you trying to access the jhanas? Are you trying to get Stream Entry?
If you want jhanas, you could use that "nimitta" as an object to go deeper by just staring at it, regardless of what colour it is. Colour has no significance really. It will change because that is a characteristic of all phenomena. Black, white, purply green, it doesn't matter.

However, if you haven't gotten stream entry yet, I would advise that you just note that colour as "image, seeing, image, image etc". It is just, as Kenneth puts it, more grist for the mill. Just another thing to note and include in your observation of your reality within. Note whatever is taking centre stage in the experience. So if it is the light and colours that take centre stage, note them. Then when something else takes prominence, note that and so on and so on. Don't get too caught up in the supposed "significance" of those experiences. They are just impermanent, not-self phenomena that you can objectify and disembed/dis-identify with....if stream entry is your trip. Jhanas are much easier after stream entry.

Concerning the vision. You should also avoid getting caught up in the "significance" of the vision. It is speculation to think it means you must do something or understand something. Take it as just more phenomena to note. "Image, image, image, image " maybe coupled by a sensation on the body, or a mind state and thoughts. Just note it if stream entry is your goal. It is nothing more than more grist for the mill, more fuel for your rocket ship to a happiness that does not depend on conditions. Don't ignore it, NOTE IT!!! Or you could ponder and ponder on it's significance and invent or suppose all sorts of things...and perhaps get bogged down in thinking and analysing stuff rather than getting closer to stream entry.
Hope this helps,
Nick

Hi Nick,

Thanks for your response.Regards your question as to whether I have got stream entry, yes, I have got 1st and 2nd path. When I achieved 1st path, I had no problem with doing Samatha, in fact, I used to see this white light, which would then expand and I would feel as if I was entering the light. I used to feel a great deal of happiness, and the body was light. I also used to have these experiences where, I didn't feel the body at all.

However, these past few years, I have been sick, and finally diagnosed with a Neurological problem. Since then, I find it very difficult to concentrate, plus, I have a very bad memory, In fact, it was only now that I realized that I forgot to mention, that I had this experience, where I saw this black spot. After a while, I found that the black spot expanded, and it sort of began to revolve, some thing like a radar screen.

I guess the reason I asked this question was because earlier on the Nimitta was white, but now it is black, hence the confusion.

I used to experience frutisions quite frequently, but now, none of that happens any more. I was thinking, maybe I should spend more time on the samatha aspect right now, as that is less taxing on the mind. It is quite frustrating, that earlier I could do samatha without any problem, but now, it is just one big struggle. I guess, it is anatta big time.

Thanking you once again, for responding to me.

with metta

Upekha