cycling through the stages ???

I am post A&P and pre-stream entry so, presumably, every time I sit I start at mind and body and move up from there, even though I really don't have the ability yet to see all the stages. Right?
And is this also happening when I am not sitting? For example, just now walking from my desk to the men's room, etc. and then back to my desk I took care to be as mindful as possible. At some point I started to get electrical chills along the top of my scalp, which is fairly common for me nowadays all through each day.
Does that mean I got a small hit of the A&P?

That's right, Mike. You don't have to be sitting to go up and down the jhanic arc. It happens even when you aren't consciously being mindful. Ever notice how you're just sitting there, minding your own busintess, and suddenly there is a ringing in your ears and the whole room seems to have gotten quiet and spacious? That's the spontaneous arising of the A&P. The little electrical chills you describe on the top of your scalp could be the 4th ñana/A&P or the 5th ñana/dissolution.

Think of these states as something that happens all the time, whether you are meditating or not.

Kenneth

Great, thanks Kenneth.
A lot of you are probably used to all this but for me to be having all these "spiritual" experiences all the time now is quite a thing.

Interesting thread, thank you. Daniel's book describes the stages of insight as they unfold through months of practice, but it would be interesting to have a short phenomenological description of how it feels when one goes through a whole cycle, let's say during one single sitting.

Kenneth, could you try to describe how it feels? (I am thinking about you because I am listening to your Buddhist Geek interview while writing these lines , but other advanced yogis could of course give it a try). I think that it would be very helpful to help us map the stages on a small fractal level.

"Interesting thread, thank you. Daniel's book describes the stages of insight as they unfold through months of practice, but it would be interesting to have a short phenomenological description of how it feels when one goes through a whole cycle, let's say during one single sitting.

Kenneth, could you try to describe how it feels? (I am thinking about you because I am listening to your Buddhist Geek interview while writing these lines , but other advanced yogis could of course give it a try). I think that it would be very helpful to help us map the stages on a small fractal level.
"

Try this:
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/The+...ight+%28Part+Five%29

Thank you Mike,
I had missed this precious article.
And of course many thanks to Kenneth for providing us with his invaluable insights.
This is exactly what I was looking for.

"Kenneth, could you try to describe how it feels? (I am thinking about you because I am listening to your Buddhist Geek interview while writing these lines , but other advanced yogis could of course give it a try). I think that it would be very helpful to help us map the stages on a small fractal level.
"

I have been trying to see clearly see the stages for a few weeks and have thought invoking an expectation by reading descriptions may hinder the investigation. That is, I may end up experiencing what is expected, only because it is expected. On the other hand, if we know precisely what to look for labeling and noticing the jhanic arc maybe faster.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Hey, Gary and Alex! In my experience this is something you have devote time and effort to in order to learn to see it well. I'm not very good at adhitthana practice, even though I know very well these stages occur all the time, both on and off the cushion. I think it's like carefully cataloging bird species by the songs the birds sing versus sitting on your front porch just enjoying bird songs. I seem to be constitutionally predisposed to listening to the bird songs, not so much toward the cataloging. The result, happily, is the same

I also think the experience of the stages varies from person to person. Not much that is described in MCTB rings a bell for me, meaning I'm either nowhere near as far along as I thought (a distinct possibility!), or that the experience each of us has is just different. I can say in that regard that I've seen accounts by others who report big differences between their experience and that cataloged in MCTB. Alan Chapman comes to mind here.

Yeh, I agree. My experiences with cycling seem not to match up with a lot of accounts I have read about. I think it might be due to the technique used. I have done the u ba khin/goenka technique for a long time and only just before I got 1st path did I start coupling it with the noting technique of Mahasi Sayadaw. But I think my many years of being aware of all the sensations throughout the body has made my experience of the cycling mostly vibrational.

Hi Chris and Nikolai!

Yes, it must be easier for people who started with the Mahasi Sayadaw method during long retreats. My experience is also mostly vibrational, probably due to the fact that I am used to Shikantaza as well as Nei Gong, Kriya Yoga or other similar forms of energy work.

Kenneth's description of A&P on this thread describes very well how it feels as soon as I sit down or stop doing anything (inner sounds, strong vibrations). The Dark Night phase is more difficult to spot in my case. It feels more like a progressive dissolution that includes phases of distraction and physical pain. However, I don't seem to feel anything like disgust or fear during sitting practice. (A form of slight depression that is not related to any particular event may come during the week, but during everyday life). When everything gets dissolved, sensations, perceptions, thoughts and feelings take the form of a unified semi-liquid undulating mindstuff placed in front of, or below what appears to be my naked formless center of consciousness. This seems to match Daniel's description of formations. I have noticed momentary interruptions of consciousness. I think that they started 10 years ago, but will need more investigation to validate or invalidate them as cessations. They may come when I take the coming and going of consciousness as an object of investigation (being more or less awake), but have not been able to witness the cessation of thoughts and sensations while observing the passing away phase of a flickering mind (when perceptions starts to strobe, like a film played at 12 images per second).

Thanks Chris and Nikola.

Alex, we have much in common! In my normal rested state I can always bring attention to vibrations in the form of a physical sensation. There are variations in intensity and frequency. Dark Night is elusive except for perhaps a vague restlessness or general uneasiness. There are times in meditation when an expansion or movement suddenly collaspes and the continuity of consciousness is uncertain, a cessation? there is break but no sense of a re-boot.

Thank you for your feeldback Gary.

Kenneth has generously recorded two new mp3 audio talks on the subject that will be very helpful. Thanks again Kenneth!

As we gain familiarity with the description of these stages by accomplished yogis, we will gradually gain confidence in identifying the strata of mind as they show up. I also feel that knowing about that will also increase our level of concentration to spot these stages as they unfold, considering that some of them can fly by in a few seconds. It is not only a geeky science of mind, but above all a mystical art.

With respect to cessations, I am still investigating the subject to see if I really experience them or just fall asleep for a brief moment. I don't exclude the second possibility '“ lol. In any case, I find these brief moments of discontinuity extremely helpful to investigate the possible continuity of a very subtle form of presence (that can never be seen as an object) behind consciousness that seems to cognize the coming and going of consciousness. I realize that one of the main drives that brought me to Buddhism is a semi-conscious existential fear of death, dissolution and extinction. Gaining confidence in possibility of a continuation of being during the vanishing of consciousness seems to be a great cure against the existential anxiety that lies behind human vanity. Sic transit gloria mundi.

What I hear however is that review cessations are not necessarily followed by a spectacular re-boot effect. It may apparently be very quick, like turning the light off and on within a second or two. Advanced yogis on this forum should be able to comment on this.

Alex, yes I can comment -- some cessations can be very, very brief, with not much, or simply no, "reboot" effect. I can invoke them right now, one after another after another in rapid succession just by mentally tickling my own brain at a certain point behind and above my eyes.