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Immaterial jhanas with eyes open
- brianm2
- Topic Author
15 years 10 months ago #56169
by brianm2
Immaterial jhanas with eyes open was created by brianm2
Is it possible to access the immaterial jhanas with open eyes?
If so, how does the experience differ from closed-eye access?
Does entry into an immaterial jhana manifest as a change in visual experience?
If so, how does the experience differ from closed-eye access?
Does entry into an immaterial jhana manifest as a change in visual experience?
- Mark_VanWhy
- Topic Author
15 years 10 months ago #56170
by Mark_VanWhy
Replied by Mark_VanWhy on topic RE: Immaterial jhanas with eyes open
That is an absolutely excellent question. i recall in his book in the section on formless realms Daniel Ingram commented:
"Sounds might still be noticeable depending on the depth of the state. Note, if one attains this state while meditating with the eyes open it may have a very different quality to it than if the eyes are closed."
But he did not elaborate at all.
I was really shocked in a recent audio dharma talk when Kenneth seemed to be describing the formless realms while going in and out of them. I would have assumed the absorbtion would be so total in formless jhanas that this would not be possible. Really interesting!
I would really like to hear Daniel and Kenneth's comments on your question brianm2!
"Sounds might still be noticeable depending on the depth of the state. Note, if one attains this state while meditating with the eyes open it may have a very different quality to it than if the eyes are closed."
But he did not elaborate at all.
I was really shocked in a recent audio dharma talk when Kenneth seemed to be describing the formless realms while going in and out of them. I would have assumed the absorbtion would be so total in formless jhanas that this would not be possible. Really interesting!
I would really like to hear Daniel and Kenneth's comments on your question brianm2!
- NikolaiStephenHalay
- Topic Author
15 years 10 months ago #56171
by NikolaiStephenHalay
Replied by NikolaiStephenHalay on topic RE: Immaterial jhanas with eyes open
Hi Brian,
I can access the very superficial stateof each of the jhanas up to the 7th with my eyes open. I am only talking about the very superficial absorbtion of each. For the first 4 rupa jhanas, with the eyes open, the field of sight can obviously takes centre stage but when i do it, I still focus on the vibrations and sensations of each jhana and the visual experience can sort feel like it´s in the background of the experience. Things kind of go out of focus and in focus, and each jhana has the eyes focus and not focus on different things, for example there is a wider focus with the 3rd jhana than the first 2. When I focus on the visual field in each jhana then things go a little wierd. Things start moving, and warping about. Sometimes, things seem to expand and contract. It´s quite a trippy experience.
With the formless jhanas it´s similar but the themes of each jhana seem to dominate.For example, with the 5th, its the focus on space all around what is seen, whereas in its superfical state with the eyes closed, it´s more the space up above and around my head that is the focus. Also very trippy.
The 8th jhana when I found out I had access after 1st path, I couldn´t do it with my eyes open. The eyes would shut automatically. But at the moment now I seem to be able to do it and it is a real strange experience. The most trippy of them all. There is obviously the percieving of the visual field but it warps in and out of not taking it in and taking it in. is not percieving it but percieving it. Really hard to explain but worth experimenting with. Hopefully some more advanced jhana masters will talk about their experiences. I´m doing this while typing so it is strictly the superficial states of the jhanas. I am actually intrigued at last to expeirment with the jhanas, but with eyes open. I might post about them later.
I can access the very superficial stateof each of the jhanas up to the 7th with my eyes open. I am only talking about the very superficial absorbtion of each. For the first 4 rupa jhanas, with the eyes open, the field of sight can obviously takes centre stage but when i do it, I still focus on the vibrations and sensations of each jhana and the visual experience can sort feel like it´s in the background of the experience. Things kind of go out of focus and in focus, and each jhana has the eyes focus and not focus on different things, for example there is a wider focus with the 3rd jhana than the first 2. When I focus on the visual field in each jhana then things go a little wierd. Things start moving, and warping about. Sometimes, things seem to expand and contract. It´s quite a trippy experience.
With the formless jhanas it´s similar but the themes of each jhana seem to dominate.For example, with the 5th, its the focus on space all around what is seen, whereas in its superfical state with the eyes closed, it´s more the space up above and around my head that is the focus. Also very trippy.
The 8th jhana when I found out I had access after 1st path, I couldn´t do it with my eyes open. The eyes would shut automatically. But at the moment now I seem to be able to do it and it is a real strange experience. The most trippy of them all. There is obviously the percieving of the visual field but it warps in and out of not taking it in and taking it in. is not percieving it but percieving it. Really hard to explain but worth experimenting with. Hopefully some more advanced jhana masters will talk about their experiences. I´m doing this while typing so it is strictly the superficial states of the jhanas. I am actually intrigued at last to expeirment with the jhanas, but with eyes open. I might post about them later.