Third gear thread?

Would any of you like to post your experiences with 3rd gear practice here? I am particularly interested in it and, as usual, have a lot of questions. I'm also really curious how others practice it and what the results have been.

There is no experience to relive, not someone elses not your own. There is no state to achieve and nothing to look for, the seeker does not arise. Forget trying to practice or trying to accept just recognise or witness grasping, fear, pleasure etc then that which cared goes but if it doesn't thats okay because what is; is. Recognise everything presents of itself, it can only be that, nothing you can do except watch.

Hello, Mike. You can certainly increase your chances of revealing what Gary described by following Kenneth's three speed transmission. I'd suggest you look at Kenneth's newest commentary on this because it makes it ever so clear that we can use first, second and third gear practices as a continuum or road map on the way to third gear awakening. And I personally believe there is a third gear practice, which I'd call it "radically and utterly letting go."

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/How+to+Get+Enlightened

No need to polish, improve or protect "Mike."

Mike

"No need to polish, improve or protect "Mike."

Mike"

"No need to polish, improve or protect Mike. " is the same as needng to protect Mike, a judgement from the same source. And this statement just made is also a judgment, so on at infinitum. There is a part of mind always bound in concepts. Conceptually; creation by making boundaries, so nothing can be said of what went before, except what is said be pointers. Anyway, all this said is probably of little or no help, in a practical way (what you can do) Kenneth put it so succinctly in the link Chris mentions above.

""No need to polish, improve or protect Mike. " is the same as needng to protect Mike, a judgement from the same source. And this statement just made is also a judgment, so on at infinitum. There is a part of mind always bound in concepts. Conceptually; creation by making boundaries, so nothing can be said of what went before, except what is said be pointers. Anyway, all this said is probably of little or no help, in a practical way (what you can do) Kenneth put it so succinctly in the link Chris mentions above.


"

I don't quite agree, at least not at this point. In my practice I'll review such concepts as "nothing to get" "nothing to become" "nothing to change," etc. (meditate on them) and then JUMP into it with an empty, surrendered mind. Before the jump mike is there, after the jump he is still there but way way in the background staying surrendered.

"I don't quite agree, at least not at this point. In my practice I'll review such concepts as "nothing to get" "nothing to become" "nothing to change," etc. (meditate on them) and then JUMP into it with an empty, surrendered mind. Before the jump mike is there, after the jump he is still there but way way in the background staying surrendered. "

It is easy for us to talk passed each other, but here goes. The practice is in the watching and our expression or conceptualization is an individual one that may vary even though speak of the same practice. When reviewing watch the thoughts,when jumping watch the jump, when thoughts of a surrendered mind arise watch the thought, when thoughts of self in the foreground arise watch the thought, when thoughts of self in the background arise watch the thought. Watch everything that manifests, treat every movement in the same way by watching it.

"It is easy for us to talk passed each other, but here goes. The practice is in the watching and our expression or conceptualization is an individual one that may vary even though speak of the same practice. When reviewing watch the thoughts,when jumping watch the jump, when thoughts of a surrendered mind arise watch the thought, when thoughts of self in the foreground arise watch the thought, when thoughts of self in the background arise watch the thought. Watch everything that manifests, treat every movement in the same way by watching it.
"

Watching myself watch myself agree.

There once was a man who said, "Though,
It seems that I know that I know.
What I would like to see
Is the 'I' that knows 'me'
When I know that I know that I know."

~Alan Watts

"Watching myself watch myself agree. "

. A happy watcher, even though it waits for its demise.

"Would any of you like to post your experiences with 3rd gear practice here? I am particularly interested in it and, as usual, have a lot of questions. I'm also really curious how others practice it and what the results have been.

"

Let me see if I can describe "my practice" in some practical way.
I always begin by focusing and regulating breath until enter samadhi, then here in this focused attention I just sit... breath fades to the background. The myriad subtle 'thoughts' (images are also just 'thoughts') arise and pass... no attention is given. Outside sounds, aromas, etc come and go... no distraction, no labeling. Eventually there is no-body, no mind, no-thing, no-self identity, just awareness.

The moment even the slightest attention is given to this awareness, there is a downshift back to the Witness, more letting go, Emptiness... dissolving. Currently, in my practice there is this cycling between what I believe is the" Witness" state and what we're calling 3rd Gear. So far, I have not been able to just sit in Primordial Awareness for more than maybe 10 minutes, often times it is just little spurts... and then returns to the Witness (or somewhere in between Witness & Primordial Awareness?)
In my 'practice' the most challenging thing I had to learn was to not have any expectations what-so-ever. No thing to try to achieve or attain... no goal -- yet, at the same time to not wander off into dullness or fanciful delusion. It's important to stay alert and not enter some 'trance' state. Maintaining good concentration and focus is fundamental in this practice.
- Tina

Thanks, Tina. I wish you posted more often.
What about when not on the cushion?
I can often get into an easy watching state while busy at work, cooking, cat petting, walking, driving, hanging with friends, etc. I surrender/let go, do the next right thing while steadily and non-judgementally watching. This can become a movement in which I am just watching/doing with no snags of discomfort or friction or conflict. This can last a long time and be very pain free or just go in fits and starts -- I'm starting to see how it works. It's very subtle and tricky. There has to be a certain quality to the surrender -- I have to REALLY not care about the outcome of my movements. I have to REALLY not care about whether or not anything in particular or anything special for Mike happens. So, maybe, it's when I start to care again that it goes away and/or loses consistency.
I remember an Achann Cha (spelling?) story retold by Jack Kornfield in which he spoke admiringly of his (Cha's) teacher's enlightened behavior -- he'd say there was "nobody home." And that is what this can seem like looking back on it.

I agree with Mike - Khara should post here more often.

Thank you Mike and Chris.
I'm trying to finish up my Qigong & Daoist studies, deadline for completion is April 2010. -- This, as well as family life keeps me pretty busy.

In answer to Mike's question: "What about when not on the cushion?" Well, it's basically the same... except that it's more 'interactive'.
Impermanence... Emptiness... and simply being aware of my actions and inaction from moment to moment. The biggest difference off the cushion is the "I/me" seems to 'feel' existence and separateness, yet knows there is no separateness. I'm aware of the feelings and emotions that arise, whilst realizing that it is all from the mind. I've learned to 'feel' the feelings and explore them... discovering their emptiness... then they just fade. Also, learning to be nakedly honest with what arises (feelings, emotions, and thoughts) without aversion -- then letting go into groundlessness. This process seems to be getting more subtle and reaching deeper into the layers of various subtleties.

After typing this, and then re-reading what you said, I think we're saying basically the same thing.

- Tina

"... learning to be nakedly honest with what arises (feelings, emotions, and thoughts) without aversion..."

I think one of the markers of realization is the willingness and ability of a person to see themselves just as they are. That takes courage and honesty, and the results can been seen from miles and miles away.

I'm getting more and more amazed at what happens when one stays with just "this" just "now."
Can it really be that simple?

Must be the reason he's called it 'the simplest thing.' [With appropriate disclaimers about 'it' and 'thing.']

I suspect that incredulous disbelief is a not infrequent reaction. I remember finding the song lyrics 'Is that all there is? ... If that's all there is, my friend, then let's keep dancing.' excruciatingly funny. And too, too true! -- which was what was so funny.

"Must be the reason he's called it 'the simplest thing.' [With appropriate disclaimers about 'it' and 'thing.']

I suspect that incredulous disbelief is a not infrequent reaction. I remember finding the song lyrics 'Is that all there is? ... If that's all there is, my friend, then let's keep dancing.' excruciatingly funny. And too, too true! -- which was what was so funny."

hahaha
this is the royal road to nowhere, guys! There is so much relief to be found in simply "letting life live", letting it all rest in its natural flow, wherein it never leaves its home. No situations, no thoughts feelings or perceptions truly have the power to disconnect us from reality and our true nature, and seeing the "sticky spots" which still seem to possess such power with honesty and directness can lead us deeper effortlessly.
Hooray!
P.S. I was going to capitalize "nowhere" so as not to give the wrong impression, but I trust you'll all get what I mean from the rest of my comment! Probably could've said "nowhere special"....

Below is what I recently wrote to Mr. Folk:

I think all of this time my idea of how to get what I was looking for (joy, peace, intimacy) was for "me" to sort of "hook up" with a state of some kind that was out there, waiting for me to join it if I just did all the right things.
Now, I think (and this is new and just a hunch) that the only way to joy peace intimacy is to do nothing look for nothing change nothing expect nothing and surrender to everything, even myself.

What may not have been obvious in my earlier comment:

Yahoo! And congratulations-- layers of confusion gone! This is the Nothing that few attain! ('cuz they haven't noticed it's what they want)

"I think all of this time my idea of how to get what I was looking for (joy, peace, intimacy) was for "me" to sort of "hook up" with a state of some kind that was out there, waiting for me to join it if I just did all the right things.
Now, I think (and this is new and just a hunch) that the only way to joy peace intimacy is to do nothing look for nothing change nothing expect nothing and surrender to everything, even myself."-telecaster

This is beautiful, Mike. What you want is what you are. It's always already done in this moment of surrender. This is Third Gear.

Kenneth

""I think all of this time my idea of how to get what I was looking for (joy, peace, intimacy) was for "me" to sort of "hook up" with a state of some kind that was out there, waiting for me to join it if I just did all the right things.
Now, I think (and this is new and just a hunch) that the only way to joy peace intimacy is to do nothing look for nothing change nothing expect nothing and surrender to everything, even myself."-telecaster

This is beautiful, Mike. What you want is what you are. It's always already done in this moment of surrender. This is Third Gear.

Kenneth"

Good thing I'm not expecting my bosses at work to stop being mean to me and wanting me to work hard and my kids to stop acting their ages and my body to stop aging and all my creditors to stop expecting their payments and my car to run forever without any maintanance and my siblings to act differently and my wife to not get grumpy sometimes and my brain to stop thinking craving thoughts and on and on

"Good thing I'm not expecting my bosses at work to stop being mean to me and wanting me to work hard and my kids to stop acting their ages and my body to stop aging and all my creditors to stop expecting their payments and my car to run forever without any maintanance and my siblings to act differently and my wife to not get grumpy sometimes and my brain to stop thinking craving thoughts and on and on "

The stoic philosopher Epictetus said:

Men are disturbed, not by things, but by the principles and notions which they form concerning things. Death, for instance, is not terrible, else it would have appeared so to Socrates. But the terror consists in our notion of death that it is terrible. When therefore we are hindered, or disturbed, or grieved, let us never attribute it to others, but to ourselves; that is, to our own principles. An uninstructed person will lay the fault of his own bad condition upon others. Someone just starting instruction will lay the fault on himself. Some who is perfectly instructed will place blame neither on others nor on himself.

classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html

it's a damn nice way to flow through life, isn't it Mike? I've taken note of a few of your posts where you are candid about your typical sort of thoughts, feelings, reactions, etc. It's so valuable to share these candid confessions. I have spent so many moments, so much time, in irritation, annoyance, self-rightousness, etc. Your descriptions in the "my behavior" thread made me laugh out loud they reminded me of myself so much. And to really see that all of that can flow along, too, without being altered or changed or manipulated, and yet right there in the heart of that ignorant foolish sentient being's life is none other than naked awareness, perfectly complete, is quite a joy and relief.
P.S. Are you a fan of Curb Your Enthusiasm, by any chance? It seems that most irritation-annoyance types either find it hilarious or, well, annoying... just curious!

I'm not sure how I feel about being tagged an "irritation-annoyance type", but yes, I Love Curb.