Mike Monson's notes on nothing

"Keep looking, looking, looking......swinging on the rope getting more height!
When I started becoming aware of those images progress sped up. The images didn't stop for me so they became part of the practise.
Like Chris said....keep going!"

It's weird -- they aren't a normal "image" exactly, but they are a snapshot of a "somebody,' kind of a place holder that fills in for a "self" since there isn't a real one anywhere, it also includes more than an image I think -- it is more than one dimension, which is all that an image has, right? Does it include senses? I'll look into it.

"
Keep going!!!

"

Yes Mike, keep going.

This is just a tip, take it or leave it...

After building a good deal of momentum in your sitting practice, step back from objects and let the mind remain attentive without settling on anything. It's like throwing your car in neutral. Awake, but not fixating on anything. Alert, but not too tightly focused.

Path moments never came for me while I was practicing in overdrive. Taking a step back helps. But not waiting around for something. Not twiddling your thumbs. Just fully present, coasting down the hill, not a care in the world.

" Does it include senses? I'll look into it. "

In my experience it does. A combination of sensations and images that are read as "I" by some confused part of the mind.

"Yes Mike, keep going.

This is just a tip, take it or leave it...

After building a good deal of momentum in your sitting practice, step back from objects and let the mind remain attentive without settling on anything. It's like throwing your car in neutral. Awake, but not fixating on anything. Alert, but not too tightly focused.

Path moments never came for me while I was practicing in overdrive. Taking a step back helps. But not waiting around for something. Not twiddling your thumbs. Just fully present, coasting down the hill, not a care in the world."

Speaking of "objects." --
This created image of "me" -- it is an object too, right? It is so different from my usual objects which are mostly sensations (vibrations pulses in the feet, hands, arms, scalp, etc) and thoughts and feelings (feelings seem to just be sensations that haven't yet been penetrated).
This image thing is what I get if I want to see who or what is looking at objects, but sometimes it will just pop up on its own.
And, it isn't something deep and hard to get to -- now that I know about it I can call it up anytime -- like -- right -- now.
But I guess it HAS to be an object under the vocabulary of this site because it is something that can be observed. And, this is REALLY weird to me, it is organically real -- actually parts of my brain make it using brain matter (what -- molecules and transmitters and electrical charges? -- I'm no brain expert of course)

"Speaking of "objects." --
This created image of "me" -- it is an object too, right? It is so different from my usual objects which are mostly sensations (vibrations pulses in the feet, hands, arms, scalp, etc) and thoughts and feelings (feelings seem to just be sensations that haven't yet been penetrated).
This image thing is what I get if I want to see who or what is looking at objects, but sometimes it will just pop up on its own.
And, it isn't something deep and hard to get to -- now that I know about it I can call it up anytime -- like -- right -- now.
But I guess it HAS to be an object under the vocabulary of this site because it is something that can be observed. And, this is REALLY weird to me, it is organically real -- actually parts of my brain make it using brain matter (what -- molecules and transmitters and electrical charges? -- I'm no brain expert of course)
"

You got it. Anything that is observed within awareness is itself an "object," which includes any sense of "I, me, or mine."

bear with me here -- just thinking out loud --
what is "big mind" or "buddha mind" or "intelligence?"
I know that I can touch something huge at times when "me" lets go completely but all my instincts tell me that it is still inside my human body here and not a connection to something outside my body. Maybe it is everything contained inside all my DNA.
What do you think? I'm such an atheist.

Hear's what I hear you saying in the last few posts: "I" comes and goes to me.

Maybe every"thing" is in your DNA. Maybe the me-that-isn't-an-I isn't.

Metta.

"bear with me here -- just thinking out loud --
what is "big mind" or "buddha mind" or "intelligence?"
I know that I can touch something huge at times when "me" lets go completely but all my instincts tell me that it is still inside my human body here and not a connection to something outside my body. Maybe it is everything contained inside all my DNA.
What do you think? I'm such an atheist. "

'The Modern Hiawatha'
He killed the noble Mudjokivis.
Of the skin he made him mittens,
Made them with the fur side inside,
Made them with the skin side outside.
He, to get the warm side inside,
Put the inside skin side outside.
He, to get the cold side outside,
Put the warm side fur side inside.
That's why he put the fur side inside,
Why he put the skin side outside,
Why he turned them inside outside.-- G. Strong
-- begging your pardon for introducing 'nonsense' to the big questions here; there IS a method to my madness, though. When my habitual belief system was being severely messed with by a process that wasn't exactly 'me' and wasn't exactly 'something else'-- this little ditty seemed to be pointing to something too elusive to pin down into serious, philosophical pronouncements.

We've all signed on (in our sleepwalking lives) to all sorts of stories-- religious, scientific, cultural, personal-- that say 'what is what', what is meaningful, how things can be expected to proceed. When you're rolling around giggling about 'nothing'-- you've slipped into a 'somewhere' free of those stories. For awhile, you're not reciting your catechism of beliefs about subject/object, inside/outside, real/illusory. Then a nervous impulse to nail it all down into its familiar configuration kicks in. Thud. Something will remain something. Nothing does not exist.

(cont.) 'Me' is something 'inside'-- the 'soul' for some; the result of neurological functions for others. All of this is basically speculative fiction. Better to notice that this creative interpretation is something that you are doing most of the time, but sometimes stop doing-- and how interesting it is when you do stop. How things seem self-illuminated in a not-merely visual way; how irrelevant it seems to insist on 'me' here and 'it' there; how like an embrace it is, where no simple demarcations can be made as to who is who. Does your skin separate you from, or join you to, your lover?

I once posted this before, but maybe it's apt here. There are several things that seem to contribute to the ongoing creation of a "me" in this world:

1. The senses - they exist in a place that is located in this body and thus the sensations they generate all arrive in that one place, making it seem as if that is a preferred place, a central place, a special place, where the universe collects itself

2. Memories - these are unique to the mind that hold them, so this, too, leads us to think there's a unique and permanent "me" that experienced them, and that same "me" endures through time

There was more but these are powerful things that probably contribute heavily to our survival. After all, it wouldn't make much sense to run from the tiger if there was no "me" to save

I like what Roomy said -- the key is to recognize that the process is ongoing. No need to actually stop it, just notice, objectify, osberve in wonderment, and adjust.

As many of you know, I suspect that my 51-year-old jesus loving pot smoking wife is enlightened.
Yesterday I was telling her about my discovery that my usual sense or temporary feeling of "me" that I feel is just a made up image.
She looked at me like "duh" and said: "of course, we are all just empty shells that our brain keeps filling with ... whatever."

nudge, nudge
wink, wink

-- what would you think if I said "It takes one to know one"--?

practice update:
Surrender, or nothing or "no fixed view" has become my default practice, with a natural tendancy to work at paying as much attention as possible to what is really going on inside and out. I like it and I feel I have a lot of equanimity a lot of the time towards my experience. A LOT of my experience is still pain, irritation, annoyance and hostillity. Sometimes when I am around random people like in stores, on the road, at the gym (especially in the locker room) I can get so hostile and annoyed. I'm mostly just gently watching it but I do often wonder when or if it will ever stop. surrender really helps, believe me.
What also helps is just a quick reminder to myself that I have "no fixed view." this can bring instant release. Also, lately, I've been using "the bystander" -- "watch it stress" "watch it get annoyed" "watch it hurt" and this brings release plus a hit of joy and clarity.
I'm practicing vipassana when I sit and whenever I just have time to note my experience, sensations, etc.
I'm doing this practice because I truly love it.
I am just so f ing curious about what all this is I can't help but turn to vipassana when I sit. I just love the intimacy.
I re-committed myself to practice just about a year ago so i've been thinking a lot about what has happened and what I want to keep doing.
On August 15th I promised myself that I would stick to vipassana for a solid year no matter what and I am very satisfied with the technique.
Right now I am mostly focused on perceptions/awareness/feelings of identity, self, me, who, what, where. You know? I am getting a lot of new and seemingly random bits of info on "me" and who is watching me watching me watching me, etc. I've been here before many tmes in the past and always pulled back out of, frankly, fear of losing my mind.

part 2
Now i can just let myself be as confused and frightened as possible and just note and objectify all that with no fear -- just curiosity and fascination (thanks Kenneth). I really no longer think there is anything to lose.
I'm also realizing lately how much this sangha has helped me. Thanks to everyone who posts and reads my posts and interacts with me here and elsewhere. It's a really big deal to me. So many of you have touched me deeply and rarely am I irritated with any of my dharma buddies.

You, Mike, are doing it AND letting it do you Congrats. It's wonderful to see you are so grooved onto your practice. What a difference! And, of course, still keep going!

Mike, your openness, humility, and delight in practice is wonderful to see.

And your wife is a credit to Jesus enthusiasts everywhere!

"Right now I am mostly focused on perceptions/awareness/feelings of identity, self, me, who, what, where. You know? I am getting a lot of new and seemingly random bits of info on "me" and who is watching me watching me watching me, etc. I've been here before many tmes in the past and always pulled back out of, frankly, fear of losing my mind. "

Hi Mike,

Heh, yeah! When I noticed how much time and effort I was investing, literally talking in my head to people who weren't there, having long, vicious arguments even - that was a bit scary. I kept reminding myself that if anything, I was getting more and more sober, and I was just noticing it more as a result.

Cheers,
Florian

There is something different happening in my point of view and/or feeling of "me."
Hard to describe of course, but:
I'm used to feeling like a bunch of small, irritated bits and pieces all trying to integrate, be comfortable and smooth, and create some kind of point of view that is located behind my eyes.
This week so far my body is not producing as much pain and I feel like my point of view is located in some larger, brighter, more comfortable place just outside of my body, above my head and a little to the left.
This is a natural feeling state, not one coaxed out by intentionaly surrendering.
It's like "no fixed view" is taking hold and becoming the norm.
Now, I need to look at this post in about a week and see if I've fallen back (or how often I've fallen back) into a dozen painful pieces, or if it continues.

"This week so far my body is not producing as much pain and I feel like my point of view is located in some larger, brighter, more comfortable place just outside of my body, above my head and a little to the left.
This is a natural feeling state, not one coaxed out by intentionaly surrendering.
It's like "no fixed view" is taking hold and becoming the norm.
Now, I need to look at this post in about a week and see if I've fallen back (or how often I've fallen back) into a dozen painful pieces, or if it continues. "

--- "equanimity" ??

Here is what happens:
1. See the "image of me" seeing something.
2. Objectify this image.
3. See an image of me objectifying the previous image.
4. Notice number 3 above and and notice an image of me noticing number 3 above.

and on and on and on. my brain cannot and will not stop providing this "me" thing.
it isn't frustrating just fascinating that the self image creating process is soooooo relentless.
I wonder today how much more there is to know about it. if I keep looking will I see more of the parts of the process? will/can/should I see it broken down from beginning middle to end? is perception/awareness actually fast enough for such a feat?

Hi Mike

Image, notice, image, notice. image, notice, image notice ... is the simplified version of 1,2,3,4. The noticing is made of the same "stuff" as the image. Every THING is the same "stuff" including the "me thing". Just a thought from another "I thing" .