People are Getting Enlightened Here

What do you think Kenneth means by the statement on the KFDh home page: "People are getting enlightened here."

Well it could mean that the people here have access to valuable advice that if followed leads to new insights that eventually or maybe suddenly leads to the main idea of enlightenment discussed on your other What is enlightenment thread.

Or maybe it means people are following the advice here and attaining important milestones on the spiritual path ie. 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th path and/or realizing the ability to dwell in buddha mind.

I agree with Nikkolai... I smiled when I read that the first time. It (to me) is a radical and much needed departure from the commonly held notion that enlightenment is unfeasible for lay followers of the dhamma.. Its very refreshing

When I read it, I took it quite literally. There are people who are posting at this site who are arahats. "I" would like to be one too, so I think this is a good site for me.

"What do you think Kenneth means by the statement on the KFDh home page: "People are getting enlightened here."
"

I like Nikolai's answer as well.

Put simply, there are members of this community who are waking up to reality, rather than just talking about it.

All of the great spiritual (or religious, or mystical, etc.) traditions offer a means of translation and transformation.

Translation is what the majority of spiritual seekers do. They learn some ideas, rules, stories, and rituals, and use them as a lens through which they might make sense of, and thus feel better about, the universe they inhabit.

Transformation, which is the focus of a stark minority of spiritual seekers, is a way to go beyond translation in such a way as to radically shift one's experience of the universe, rather than just their ideas about it.

Though some translation goes on here, as is to be expected, the site was founded on the premise that genuine transformation is possible. And in case after case, we are made witness to this fact. We are a community not content with cookie cutter answers and philosophical dialogue. Instead, we employ a vast array of potent spiritual technologies that lead to bona fide growth.

So yes! People are getting enlightened (i.e. transforming) here!

humor should not be explained

"humor should not be explained"

So, you think he's kidding?

no, it's funny because it's true
it's even funnier if it isn't true elsewhere on similar-themed websites
but now it's not funny anymore because I explained it

"no, it's funny because it's true
it's even funnier if it isn't true elsewhere on similar-themed websites
but now it's not funny anymore because I explained it
"

"When I read it, I took it quite literally. There are people who are posting at this site who are arahats. "I" would like to be one too, so I think this is a good site for me. "

Is an arahat enlightened?

"Is an arahat enlightened?"

I don't know enough to know for sure, but, my impression is that all the "developmental" enlightenment people (who tend to be the ones to use the term Arahat) think that once a person has stream entry (first path) they are then considered enlightened. Since arahats are fourth path in that map then they would be considered enlightened by people who adhere to that system.

is an arahat enlightened?

Is an arahat enlightened?

In some theravada traditions "arahat" and enlightened one are synonymous. So, literally yes, but I think there is a deeper question here really, and that is this: is there really an individual who becomes enlightened, who can then get the label "arahat."

This is where my beginner-ness really shows. I just don't know the answer. I've read that the answer to that question is no, but when I ponder my own experiences and insights, I haven't seen that deeply yet. I feel like a solid "me" even though I've seen sensations that make up "me" break down.

I'd rather not answer that question on either pure faith or pure speculation. For me, the practice hasn't deepened enough to know this in visceral way yet.

"Is an arahat enlightened?"

Are you getting at the fact that an arahat might not have ever experienced the "buddha mind" of kenneth's 3rd gear and therefore is not fully enlightened because of that? Again in all comes down to definition of "enlightened".

What does it mean to be enlightened??????????? Is it crossing a specific line and stopping? Or is it crossing a specific line and continuing to run onwards?

"Is an arahat enlightened?"

I don't mean to sound pretentious or anything, but let's use our brains. If we stop and think about for a moment we know the answer is "it depends."

The Arahant of the Pali canon is one who was fully liberated, which was the mission of the Buddha in those texts. From this POV, yes.

The Prajna Paramita Sutras of the Mahayana canon belittle arahants to some degree, often making Sariputta out to be somewhat of an ignoramus; ironically of course, as in the Pali canon he was the disciple of the Buddha that was "foremost in Wisdom." Arahants were seen as not necessarily having realized the Emptiness of all dharmas/dhammas, rather than just the emptiness of self. So, from this POV, no.

From what I know of the Bhumi model of Tibetan Buddhism, arahantship lines up right around the 6th of 10 (if Reggie Ray's work is right). So, from this POV, not quite.

Kenneth's framework differentiates developmental attainment (path to arahantship) and the nondual path of always-already Buddha Nature; the former having a definite end point, the later being more open ended. So, from this POV, yes and no.

Round and round we go. "Arahant" is a loaded term. What all of these views have in common, which is much more important than their differences, is that liberation and realization are possible; not just that, they are our birthright as human beings. Just seek what is true. It works out better that way, both now and later.

Definitely maybe.