Emptiness of phenomena

Drinking a coffee in the kitchen, I was gazing in front of me, dissolving the sense of a localized separate self while relaxing in the natural state. Focusing on the emptiness of visual perceptions, everything became slightly dreamlike. I then realized that, with intention only, I could rotate my whole perceptual field towards the left or towards the right. It seems that I can do it at will. Needless to say, it feels like being in a Carlos Castaneda novel or in the movie The Matrix.

Is anyone familiar with this strange phenomenon?

Wow! You mean like rotate the vertical axis clockwise or counterclockwise?

Yes, but just for 5 or 10° (not 360°).

Are you moving your eyes and "remembering" the visual perspective before the eye movement? Normally eye movement is not noticed except of course for the change relative to the objects of vision.

I don't see it as a physical phenomenon (I made sure that I wasn't moving the eyes or anything). Since I am used to meditate with open eyes, I slip in meditative trance where things are not that solid anymore. i guess we could call it a controlled hallucination. I when through these stages of 'makyo' during Zen sesshins in the past, but it seems that I can now access this strange territory during everyday life.

The trick is to take the whole field of visual perception as if it was a movie screen and to observe its intrinsic emptiness and luminosity. When it gets dreamlike, we can start playing with it. What looked so real and solid begins to feel like a lucid dream.

Hi, Alex. I can't relate to the specific effect you describe, but I do have some experiences with what are probably similar effects. If I meditate with my eyes open, which I used to do a lot of while deep into vipassana, I would get some very weird visual effects that are all based in mind, not in the physical mechanism that generates the visual sense.

I used to meditate with my eyes open because while I could easily "see" what was really going on with touch and hearing, sight was another deal. The bandwidth sight uses, coupled with the huge amount of mind processing time sight occupies, was bothersome to me and sitting with eyes open, seeing the kind of thing you describe here, made it clear to me that sight was just like my other senses -- it was based on physical stuff contacting my senses but more so based on mind. As it becomes more and more obvious that mind is the most important sense organ experience can, indeed, become more and more dreamlike and that effect cam be invoked almost any time.

Hope that helps!

Yes it does, thanks Chris.

I don't talk about this much, because it can be a distraction for students, but I find that I have access to a wide array of Carlos Castaneda-esque psychic phenomena. For example, sitting here on the couch with a computer in my lap, I am able to conjure up one or more astral bodies, invest them with greater or lesser degrees of apparent reality and experience them either from the outside or the inside as they fly, hover, dive into the earth, or explore other realms.

They seem quite real in every way, but are distinguishable from my ordinary waking reality in several ways. They are bodies of light or energy, rather than flesh; they are not impeded by physical barriers like walls or planets; they can move at any speed, from slow to fast, change direction instantly (they seem to have no mass) and they can move at the speed of thought, teleporting anywhere instantly. Seeing reality at this plane of light opens up infinite possibilities for experience, all of which are fascinating in their own right and can also be used as platforms for further meditation practice. For some reason, though, I only occasionally turn my attention to this alternate reality. Don't know why. I do find it interesting and worthwhile. As I write this, it occurs to me that one of the reason I don't spend more of my day in "altered states" is that it takes time away from the relationships I have on "this" plane (the where my family and dharma friends live).

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Yes, but just for 5 or 10° (not 360°).



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Hi Alex,

Just a theory, this might be the difference between one eye then the other eye being the template for the constructed image. I understand perception is mind and how objects get reified, but think it reasonable there be some physical basis for what you are experiencing. If there were no physical basis we might expect a greater variation or manipulation.

"I don't talk about this much, because it can be a distraction for students, but I find that I have access to a wide array of Carlos Castaneda-esque psychic phenomena. For example, sitting here on the couch with a computer in my lap, I am able to conjure up one or more astral bodies, invest them with greater or lesser degrees of apparent reality and experience them either from the outside or the inside as they fly, hover, dive into the earth, or explore other realms.

They seem quite real in every way, but are distinguishable from my ordinary waking reality in several ways. They are bodies of light or energy, rather than flesh; they are not impeded by physical barriers like walls or planets; they can move at any speed, from slow to fast, change direction instantly (they seem to have no mass) and they can move at the speed of thought, teleporting anywhere instantly. Seeing reality at this plane of light opens up infinite possibilities for experience, all of which are fascinating in their own right and can also be used as platforms for further meditation practice. For some reason, though, I only occasionally turn my attention to this alternate reality. Don't know why. I do find it interesting and worthwhile. As I write this, it occurs to me that one of the reason I don't spend more of my day in "altered states" is that it takes time away from the relationships I have on "this" plane (the where my family and dharma friends live)."

I know it can be a distraction but I would love to know how to do that. Any tips? I remember you somewhere saying you asked a monk if it was breaking sila to make love with a deva. I know this could be distracting but could you alsdo give some tips on that to? Hahah sorry, I am actually serious, just about psychic powers not about having sex with devas. Daniel gives instructions. Would you? Private messages so it is not a distraction?

That's no doubt why Kenneth doesn't talk about this stuff much. Distraction from the real objective.

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That's no doubt why Kenneth doesn't talk about this stuff much. Distraction from the real objective.

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Yes, yes! You can be Maha Kassapa and I can be Mogallana. It doesn't have to be distracting. It's called multitasking. Hehe!

Good luck with that.

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That's no doubt why Kenneth doesn't talk about this stuff much. Distraction from the real objective.

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Yeah, I have to say the same. I really like Daniel's suggestion of taking a vow not to monkey with this kinda stuff. It really says a lot that Dipa Ma who was reportedly one of the most attained in this regard later in life took a vow renouncing all of her siddis (except Metta, Loving kindness). I'm not big on vows, but that one makes sense to me, and for the record, I've taken it.

Thank you all for your comments. It was nothing important, but I found it funny while drinking my expresso this morning.

Speaking about astral experiences, I did have sex with a goddess a few weeks ago. How does it feel? First it's like the real thing, but it soon rises to a state of deep joy throwing you to a very deep fomeless jhanic state. As I see it retrospectively, it was like rising through the 4 rupa jhanas, but the experience was much deeper than anything that I had experienced before. I suspect also that the whole tantric thing is based on these first jhanas. That's also Nan huai-chin's opinion it seems.

But I agree with Kenneth to say that it's fun from time to time but can also be a major distraction (but, it's still better than TV).

"Speaking about astral experiences, I did have sex with a goddess a few weeks ago. How does it feel? First it's like the real thing"

Wow, I never thought of that posibility before I took the vow. Daniel should have mentioned that in the book, on page one! Hehe, j/k

"@Nikolai: I know it can be a distraction but I would love to know how to do that. Any tips? I remember you somewhere saying you asked a monk if it was breaking sila to make love with a deva. I know this could be distracting but could you alsdo give some tips on that to? Hahah sorry, I am actually serious, just about psychic powers not about having sex with devas. Daniel gives instructions. Would you? Private messages so it is not a distraction?"

Hi Nick,

For me, these unusual adventures and abilities have come about spontaneously as I've continued to practice through the years. I haven't cultivated astral travel much. So, as far as I know, one way to have these kinds of experiences is to just keep doing what you're doing: balance concentration and investigation and keep uncovering the depths of your own mind.

As for deliberately cultivating astral travel, our own AugustLeo is very adept at dream yoga and lucid dreaming, so he may be able to steer you toward a book that gives precise instructions. He may even be willing to tell you the methods he has used. My understanding is that his focus is to use the dream state as a platform to continue his explorations of perspectives of consciousness and to deepen his insight. This is a very good orientation to have, IMHO. It enables you to explore the fascinating world of astral travel without diverting focus from your wisdom practice. While in the dream state or the astral plane, you can do vipassana or inquire into the knower of the experience.

Keep us posted on your adventures!

Kenneth

Thanks Kenneth,

I have been very interested in dream practices. Got myself a book on Zhine Tibetan Bon practices. of dream yoga. I've been trying to take my practice to dreamland lately. I would love to hear anything AugustLEo has to say on these types of practices. We spend a third of our lives sleeping so why not utilise it?

Astral travel is a kind of fake it until you make it. It first feels like day dreaming, but gets more and more 'real' as the trance deepens. Here is how I do it:

- I start with body sweeping Vipassana for 10 minutes.
- When my physical body starts dissolving (subjectively), I scan the body once from my legs up to the top of my head.
- I the pop out from the crown and feel my head from above with imaginary hands.
- I then feel (more than I see) my astral body floating in the room above my physical body (one may however be aware of both at the same time)
- Gradually, I start seeing things. As the trance deepens it gets sharper and sharper.

With a bit of practice anybody can do it. The main thing is to stop believing that a ghost leaves the body. It's more like a dream.

I noticed that there is a higher form of astral body made of ecstatic golden light that feels more like a divine body. Kenneth must know what I am talking about.

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Drinking a coffee in the kitchen, I was gazing in front of me, dissolving the sense of a localized separate self while relaxing in the natural state. Focusing on the emptiness of visual perceptions, everything became slightly dreamlike.

Is anyone familiar with this strange phenomenon?
"

Here and there I've had moments akin to the quoted part here. So when I read about the DAYTIME part of Dream Yoga [in Namkhai Norbu's "Cycle of the Day and Night"-- also, I think, in Tendzin Wanyal's dream yoga book] it struck a chord. I expect you're already familiar with these books, but another look at this specifically might be interesting.

"Astral travel is a kind of fake it until you make it. It first feels like day dreaming, but gets more and more 'real' as the trance deepens. Here is how I do it..."-AlexWeith

Alex, this is a terrific tutorial! You made some especially important points. The "fake it till you make it" understanding is essential; astral travel can be understood as existing on a continuum with pure imagination/visualization at one end and full-on out of body experience on the other. To start with visualization and gradually move toward more vivid experiences is one of the best ways to systematically develop the skill. (OK, Nick, I have done some cultivation.)

And yes, it is very like a dream. In fact, some of the most vivid out of body experiences I've had were when I "woke up" into the astral plane from within sound sleep.

Also, as you say, there seems to be a range of astral planes from which to choose. There is the relatively gross plane that allows you to have a lot of control and systematically hone your skills. This is the plane where the astral body has all five senses (and maybe even mass, contrary to what I said before) and can interact with other astral beings. But there is also a realm that is so subtle that I can't manipulate it at all without a backlash of tension or anxiety; I can just see it as it manifests in its very dynamic way. This is the plane of the bodies of light. Everything is alive, including "inanimate" objects, and there is a constantly changing display of wonderful vitality and color. I think of this plane as having a sense of humor, as it always seems to be cutting capers for the sheer joy of it. And there is something halfway in between that allows for some control on my part. That's where it's possible to manifest many bodies at once, which move at the speed of thought, can dart around and can expand into many and back into one like a kaleidoscope.

Alex and Kenneth,

I've been of the opinion that Astral Travel is actually a lucid dream experience. However, I wanted to challenge that assumption and ask if either of you have "tested" your AT. One way to do this is to randomly select a playing card, tape it facing out the window (without looking at it), then projecting and looking at what the card is.

Just curious.

Matt

Hi Matt,

I'm skeptical that any useful information can be gained about the "ordinary" plane by visiting the astral. If that could be consistently done, winning the World Series of Poker would be a snap! I think of the various planes as consistent within themselves but I haven't seen any evidence that you can mix and match. And I've given up on the idea of validating one plane by the standards of another. Apples and oranges. I agree with you that astral travel is related to or the same as a lucid dream experience. To put it another way, a lucid dream experience is one form of astral travel.

Kenneth

It is no wonder that there are so many admonishments to not get distracted by these things - they sound so fascinating.

What occurs to me as I read over this thread is the strong need for emotional maturity on the path. It seems that one must really need to get one's priorities in life in order to survive this kind of stuff, otherwise you might end up ignoring your job, loved ones, responsibilities and even stop making progress on the path.

Still, if you have the maturity, this has to be great fun. I'm an astronomy geek, and I'd love to get a closer look at some the things that I've only seen through the telescope. What an amazing opportunity!

I'm with Ron. These experiences are fascinating but I think it's best given the nature of human nature that we progress along the path first, then experiment with these other phenomena if they still interest us. What I believe these phenomena tell us is just how powerful our minds reallly are. So I try to keep the admonition in mind that power can corrupt -- and hey, I have plenty of issues to deal with already