1st &2nd path question

I've been practising very hard, not heroically, just consistently. I do two sits now every morning, thirty five to forty minutes each with a five minute break between. I've waited a few weeks now to send you this just to be sure, but I'm convinced now that I have attained to second path! The dark night and equanimity second time round unfolded in precisely the same manner as first. Subsequently I was expecting same when it came to fruitions and number of black outs but it did not happen this way. It took me by surprise in that it was so neat and unspectacular. I sat through only a few sessions with fruitions then experienced a very unusual oscillating black out followed two days later by a black out which swept left to right across the visual field, rather like the curtains on a stage play closing from the sides, not above... and that was it....Things are now remarkably different to first. First felt broad and expanded, but this is more less of me and more of another state altogether which is serene, cosmically huge in interior spaciousness and a distinct sense that I am no longer me, but somewhat '˜other,'....During the day from time to time I am aware of having access to an altered state which is broad and encompassing, patient, compassionate, does not concern itself with frictions and anxieties, is present. There is no need or desire to be elsewhere or doing something other than '˜being.' During sleep the other night I became aware of energy movement in the body, whirring in the chakras completing with a rush toward the crown and a sudden change in consciousness. (cont'd)

Recently I've become aware that I am dreaming as I sleep...normally I don't even remember dreaming. Also, I have not had access to the non-dual for a while. Kundalini surges are very powerful at the moment...it's hard not to notice them. And, I am very absent minded. Can someone share their compare contrast experiences of first and second path states? Also, does the path toward third unfold in the same manner as first and second regarding the stages of insight, or is it a little more nebulous? Look forward to hearing from you.
Paul

Wow! That sounds very similar to how it felt when I got 2nd path. For me, 1st path had the mind feel "broad and expanded" like you said but then when 2nd path hit, the mind felt much more spacious, the "I" felt smaller somehow, less solid and there was this feeling of not being the same person anymore. These days, as it has been months since then, I feel very normal as I don't remember very well how it feels to be pre-path. But then, directly after, it felt so obviously and amazingly other-worldly. The way you describe the mind being more spacious and there is less"I" there is very much like how it is/was for me. Chakras and energy flow got very obvious also. I also had a period (review) where I felt like I was content wherever I was. I would use the analogy of feeling like a massive stone in a zen garden. Just content to sit there. It was a strange and wonderful feeling of true contentment. But then 3 weeks or so after I dropped into a new cylce, The review stage ended and hahah! that's another story.

I also remember using an analogy when I tried explaining to the teacher on the retreat where it happened trying to explain the difference from 1st and 2nd path. In 1st it felt like the mind became a clear sky, no clouds and all the negativity on the body had become much clearer. I could see it all happening. When previous to this, the mind was full of thunderstorms and thick clouds and an ocean of misery underneath. But 1st path felt like the ocean had calmed down and the sky was clear and blue. Then 2nd path felt like the ocean had reduced to a river, and the sky was something one could imagine a deva heaven being....crystal blue...not a speck in the sky. and below and open field, and where the ocean was, just a river of misery. I aint kidding, these were the analogies I used to explain the different states of being to the teacher....hahah...I would change it a little now....but I think the review period was an amazing time...I felt much more enlightened. That may change though....it did for me.....the constant cycling after the review period is over can bring one down back to earth quite quickly.

I am not so good with dreams. But I can manipulate the kundalini surges up the back and through the body. They can get very powerful. And when they hit the crown area, the mind just disperses. Great time to practice jhanas. When I got 2nd, I felt the access to the first 8 jhanas was just too unbelievably fast. Do you have that access? Can you just will the mind into them?

Edited to add....directly after 2nd path, I kind of felt that there were massive chunks of craving and aversion that had dropped away. It felt like I was so much less of what was. In fact minutes after it happened, I told the teacher that it felt like "there was considerably much less of "me" now. What an awesome time review period is. Hehe! And the path to 3rd is quite , as Chris once put it, a hall of mirrors. Damn confusing! Cycles within cycles!

Thanks Nicolai for your kind reply. I don't do much jhana work to be honest but yes I can access them at will now, feels like just changing the chanel which I find extraordinary considering the hard yards put in to find them in the first place. While sitting I don't pay any attention to jhana states, I tend to keep focused on the 'I am' sensation and I do a tantric visualisation at the heart chakra too, sometimes at the third chakra also to take me out of the visual field or the sensation of 'looking at.' And yes, extraordinary volumes or mass of craving, aversion and demanding have just litterally vanished!! I look forward to the 'hall of mirrors.' Thanks again.
Paul

Nice, Paul!

I haven't done this yet. I'm happy for you!

You will know you are second path when you are confused beyond belief, feel lost and don't quite know how to get out of the thing. Second path was a mess for me in that way. It was, however, mercifully short. I hope you, Paul, do not go through all the angst and weirdness I did.

Hey Chris,

Do you mean 2nd path leading up to the cessation of 2nd path was confusing? Or did you mean from 2nd path to 3rd? I appreciate your input but could use a little clarification...

Thanks---Clayton

2nd path to 3rd path, Clayton.

Hi Cartago,

After attaining 2nd Path, the cycles speed up. You might go through an entire Progress of Insight, complete with a significant A&P event, a deep dark night, a noticeable equanimity phase, and clear fruitions, every few weeks. You may be surprised to find that these Progress of Insight cycles don't seem to be "doing anything." In other words, 1st and 2nd Path have conditioned you to think that after each Progress of Insight, there is some marked change in your life. That ceases to be the case for awhile after 2nd Path. It's as though the Progress of Insight cycles are "shooting blanks." So you get used to it; your life consists of going through these cycles. Eventually, you stop expecting anything from the cycles. You begin to identify with the calm at the eye of the storm. You let the cycles go on around you while attempting to identify with the calm. It's frustrating, because you can't be calm all the time. But you try; this is the nature of the beast.

Throughout this phase, you must continue to refine your noting technique and you must also improve your concentration. Practice the Four Foundations of Mindfulness and the bystander. Use a kasina object and go deep. Map your progress in each sitting as you go up and down the jhanic arc. Become more familiar with the formless realms, jhanas 5-8. And be alert to the possibility that there are other jhanas beyond the first eight.

Kenneth

"
Throughout this phase, you must continue to refine your noting technique and you must also improve your concentration. Practice the Four Foundations of Mindfulness and the bystander. Use a kasina object and go deep. Map your progress in each sitting as you go up and down the jhanic arc. Become more familiar with the formless realms, jhanas 5-8. And be alert to the possibility that there are other jhanas beyond the first eight.

Kenneth"

This is so where I'm at, Kenneth! I just see the cycles going round and round and I don't see them doing much, except making me an expert in telling this forum where I am currently in the cycle. I feel very drawn to just being with whatever is there in this moment. Not looking for anything, I'm tired of that feeling. Not trying to get fruitions and speed up the cycles, not manipulate the experience! I'm starting to see that there is a subtle tension created that I wasn't seeing until recently when I "try" to "speed up" the process and "force" progress. I feel that tension in my face and head and my body seem subtly tense when I meditate like that. You are really right on the whole non-manipluation of experience.

Also....are you saying that someone on 2nd path has access to something after the 8th jhana? I thought you were explicit in saying only anagamis and above have that access?

.

Hi Kenneth,
Good to hear from you. Thank you all very much for your advise and support. I'm looking forward to the challenge this phase has to offer. Thanks Kenneth for the detailed heads up on what to expect, look for and to practice. The only minor sticking point in my head at the moment is what may be harder dark nights in relation to physical pain. I had near excruciating back pain and sciatica in my left leg for most of second path cycle. At some points my body would be so seized after sitting I wouldn't be able to move for a short while and certainly I couldn't bend over for a few weeks. Putting my socks on was a major win of any given day. But that said I can't stay away. I'll get right on it. Thank you all again. I'll keep you posted.
Paul

"After attaining 2nd Path, the cycles speed up. You might go through an entire Progress of Insight, complete with a significant A&P event, a deep dark night, a noticeable equanimity phase, and clear fruitions, every few weeks. You may be surprised to find that these Progress of Insight cycles don't seem to be "doing anything." In other words, 1st and 2nd Path have conditioned you to think that after each Progress of Insight, there is some marked change in your life. That ceases to be the case for awhile after 2nd Path. It's as though the Progress of Insight cycles are "shooting blanks." So you get used to it; your life consists of going through these cycles. Eventually, you stop expecting anything from the cycles. You begin to identify with the calm at the eye of the storm. You let the cycles go on around you while attempting to identify with the calm. It's frustrating, because you can't be calm all the time. But you try; this is the nature of the beast."

Right on the money, Kenneth

I was doing some research on the site and found this excellent thread with some precious pieces of information. I just want to bring this up for other newbies like.

Antero.