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Emotions, neurosis and the path
- jhsaintonge
- Topic Author
15 years 5 months ago #63152
by jhsaintonge
Replied by jhsaintonge on topic RE: Emotions, neurosis and the path
Yes, I am using the terms here in a loose Tibetan-y sense, not in a Thera sense. Generally, and this is just a personal, anecdotal impression-- it seems to me that Theravada often focuses on experience. Concentration is concentration "on" something or other, and insight is insight "into" the nature of phenomena, that things are empty, impermanent and unsatisfactory (if you expect them to be other than empty and permanent). .
Meanwhile, the Tibetan teachers with whom I'm familiar are far far more oriented to the "experiencer", and to clarifying "who" is having all the various experiences. Ultimately, the answer is primordial buddha, that's who, and this wraps right around as the same "is"-ness of buddhamind is the suchness of phenomena!
So the mind-training component of this latter way- concentration and insight-- is from the beginning oriented to this nature of awareness, rather than to the nature of phenomena.
But different practice lineages in Tibet use the terms "zhine" and "lackthong" (shammatta and vippassana) very differently from each other, and within one cycle of teachings the terms take on different meanings on higher arcs of the spiral. Some Mahayana (rather than Vajrayana) implementations of the terms are very similar to the meanings in Theravada, and have a similar object-orientation.
What lineages have you practiced with?
Meanwhile, the Tibetan teachers with whom I'm familiar are far far more oriented to the "experiencer", and to clarifying "who" is having all the various experiences. Ultimately, the answer is primordial buddha, that's who, and this wraps right around as the same "is"-ness of buddhamind is the suchness of phenomena!
So the mind-training component of this latter way- concentration and insight-- is from the beginning oriented to this nature of awareness, rather than to the nature of phenomena.
But different practice lineages in Tibet use the terms "zhine" and "lackthong" (shammatta and vippassana) very differently from each other, and within one cycle of teachings the terms take on different meanings on higher arcs of the spiral. Some Mahayana (rather than Vajrayana) implementations of the terms are very similar to the meanings in Theravada, and have a similar object-orientation.
What lineages have you practiced with?
- IanReclus
- Topic Author
15 years 5 months ago #63153
by IanReclus
Replied by IanReclus on topic RE: Emotions, neurosis and the path
I've worked a bit with Reggie Ray's Dharma Ocean group. He does a lot of body based meditation to help reach that relaxed open aware state, which he's said is basically a kind of Samatha.
And while sitting with his local group in NYC, we've done something they called Vipassana which was basic contemplation of the 4 reminders (meant to inspire practice): preciousness of human birth, impermanence, the law of karma, and the failure of samasara to satisfy.
This seemed to line up pretty closely with what you were talking about earlier. And I like that distinction between focusing on experience versus the experiencer. Personal and anecdotal it might be, but still a good distinction, I think.
And while sitting with his local group in NYC, we've done something they called Vipassana which was basic contemplation of the 4 reminders (meant to inspire practice): preciousness of human birth, impermanence, the law of karma, and the failure of samasara to satisfy.
This seemed to line up pretty closely with what you were talking about earlier. And I like that distinction between focusing on experience versus the experiencer. Personal and anecdotal it might be, but still a good distinction, I think.