A Guided Tour to 13 Jhanas

I had a Skype session with Nick Halay today in which we visited the four material jhanas, the four immaterial jhanas, and the five suddhavasa (Pure Land) jhanas. With Nick's permission, I've posted the video in seven parts, beginning here (you'll find the other segments in the "Videos" section of this site):

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/video/101...+Jhanas+%281+of+7%29

This thread is a place for questions and comments.

Kenneth

This is great, Thanks!

Marvelous! And almost impossible for me to watch without ascending the arc. Wild.

Thanks to both of you.

Chris,

Funny you should mention that. As I was working listening to them descend the Arc I think I must have been in 4th Jhana territory because when they got to that point, I picked up on the wide attention, and then felt the transition to third, 2nd, and then started stretching and yawning then they started doing the same thing. It was indeed wild.

Thanks for posting this video. I especially enjoyed the discussion after the tour--when you were both obviously too relaxed to care that you were not saying anything to each other... This video helped clear some confusion I had when it came to the top 3 pure abodes...

Awesome! Thank you! I have had a hunch that the 'witness' was associated with a feeling feedback loop involving the crown of the head. Whenever I experience this I think of the line 'the lamp turning back on itself'. Is this so?

Here is the map from Access to Insight that I mentioned on the recording. It was prepared by John T. Bullit:

www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sagga/loka.html

Notice that the 5 suddhavasa (what I call Pure Land) jhanas are a subset of the 4th jhana, but only accessible to anagamis and arahats. I'll be interested to hear from some of you who are pre-3rd Path to see whether you can get a preview of them as you listen to the guided meditation. I'm working with a hypothesis that there is a kind of psychic architecture or energy infrastructure having to do with chi or kundalini that must be built in order to have stable access to these advanced jhanas and that the 3rd Path attainment can be seen as nothing more or less than having developed this energy structure within the body/mind. If this is correct and if pre-3rd Path yogis can get a taste of the suddhavasa jhanas via the guided tour, then it seems as if we are able to "lend" the energy structure to each other as we meditate together, an idea I find fascinating.

I would also point out that although the immaterial jhanas (jhanas 5- appear to be "higher" than the suddhavasa jhanas on the map, that is not my experience either developmentally or in the everyday access of these states. As the map points out, stable access to the suddhavasa jhanas is equivalent to the anagami (3rd Path) attainment. But we know that 1st, 2nd, and even pre-1st Path yogis can develop access to the immaterial jhanas, so they are not as developmentally advanced as the suddhavasa jhanas. Furthermore, each time I sit and step through the jhanas and nanas without manipulating the experience, the natural sequence of events is invariable: The four material jhanas arise first, in numerical order, then the four immaterial jhanas, in order, then the five suddhavasa jhanas, in order. Then all the jhanas are seen in reverse order on the way back down.

Interesting you say this Kenneth. If you remember while I was early or mid 2nd path , I listened to your initial recorded audio tour of the 20 strata of mind and I "thought" I was accessing the same things. I stopped talking about it because you were very adamant that only anagami were able to access the pure abodes. However, when I sat in the Witness I was only accessing what was available to me. So I wasn't going up to the 5th pure abode at all but the 8th jhana and little hints of something after until recently when I started really seeing something clear while non-manipulating sits in the Witness. So it seems you are on to something.

Check the 1st page of my notes for me describing them well over 5 months ago.

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/36...lai's+Practice+Notes

Plus, now that you have introduced me to the final 3 pure abodes they are arising in order as I go up the jhanic arc. However, I will keep you posted if I find out I have been subtly willing the mind into those jhanas through subtle manipulation. Because I can't say 100 % for sure if it is purely non-manipulated access. Interesting all the same. And I am starting to realize that there is something to the orthodox view that anagamis are still attached to the formless realms, although i would change it to attachment to the pure abodes. The silky breath one is the bees' knees!!

This is really cool stuff to watch! Thanks Kenneth and Nick for sharing.

Wow, what an ... engaging video. Thanks very much, Kenneth and Nick.

FWIW, I got a very good preview of what you both described as 3rd suddhavasa jhana on several occasions. The one with the trunk-like, grounded posture and the sense of a large reservoir of peace floating above the head (at 3min into Part 3).

Are there any mimics of these jhanas, further down? Some really refined versions of the rupa jhanas maybe?

I also recognize many of the energetic sensations described by you guys, the eyes and visual focus turning up and/or inward towards the 3rd eye, the energetic superconductor lightning-rod thing down the center, loops forming and so on - but not in any recognizably systematic line-up. I assume these are building-blocks available in 4th-jhana-territory, the stuff the siddhis and other 4th-jhana-related experiences are made up from.

Cheers,
Florian

"... each time I sit and step through the jhanas and nanas without manipulating the experience, the natural sequence of events is invariable: The four material jhanas arise first, in numerical order, then the four immaterial jhanas, in order, then the five suddhavasa jhanas, in order. Then all the jhanas are seen in reverse order on the way back down."

That's my experience, too, Kenneth. I've never had a "preview" of a jhana that I couldn't access while just letting the jhanic arc do its thing on its own. Of course, anything is possible and Nick has consistently said he gets snippets of "higher" jhanas that way, so there may indeed be something to it. And of course I'm still fascinated by the palpable resonance I felt while watching your video - so much so that I had to engage in jhana practice last night

Brilliant! I'm amazed that you can both talk through the top five jhanas. Thank you both for posting this. It's very inspirational.

Hi jigmesengye,

Yeh, It depends. For example, I find it virtually impossible to talk and think straight in the 7th and 8th jhana. That is why I had to snap out of them. But the top 5 pure abodes are more related to the 4th as a full-bodied jhana and for some reason the mind is able to think and talk a little easier. But this also means we are experiencing very superficial states of each jhana. If I let myself go deeper in one, then it takes a bit of self-coaxing to get out of it and start talking. My fiancee certainly knows what I'm talking about, hehe! She will get mad, because it takes me a minute to come back down to earth.

"But the top 5 pure abodes are more related to the 4th as a full-bodied jhana and for some reason the mind is able to think and talk a little easier. But this also means we are experiencing very superficial states of each jhana."-Nick

I would say it differently. When we are able to talk from within a jhana, it means we are able to be in that jhana without being absorbed (embedded) in it. This is good when your objective is to awaken because it means we are able to light a lamp while in a very concentrated place, thereby bringing awakening to that jhana. I think of it as accessing various deep places in the mind in order to awaken the sleeping buddhas who are embedded there.

So we are not staying at a superficial level but rather training the mind to be alert and functional in all sorts of states that are often thought of as inherently dysfunctional.

The simile of the radio: When you tune the radio to FM 101.9, you access the station that lives at that frequency. Depending on various factors like the distance from the transmitter, the power and quality of the receiver and its batteries, and the level of distraction, you may be hearing the music "loud and clear" or faintly, through static. There is a continuum of clarity, but in all cases, you are at 101.9. The best part is that with practice you can learn to dial in the radio until it is crystal clear while simultaneously balancing the boom box on your shoulder and dancing hip-hop. It's a skill to be cultivated.

Nice! Kenneth, I remember reading somewhere that your teacher, Bill Hamilton said to spend as much time in the 4th jhana as possible. Is this right? And if so, what was his reasoning for that?

I just watched this video and I loved it!

Kenneth, I'd recommend more videos on the site, perhaps a section of them. They convey so much that doesn't come through on the threads.

Students who stumble upon the website and wonder what is going on could watch an "introductory meditation" video, and those interested in the overall framework of the insight knowledges could watch a video of you explaining and then demonstrating them.

There is a lot of potential in this.

I concur... seeing is believing. I think a series of similar videos could introduce the technique in a easily accessed way... KFD could be a youtube viral hit! haha

I came across this only yesterday and was blown away... has anybody ever done this before?? Like others, I also felt an empathetic pull by just watching and listening. Coincidentally, I had been going through a phase of aversion to formal meditation... this got me right back on the cushion and with a healthy dose of inspiration and inquisitiveness. Many thanks to Kenneth and Nick.

Like others, I think more videos is a great idea...

I found this mesmerizing, and am amazed that you can talk through this. Wow.

Not to spoil things, but for some comic relief (after you have watched it seriously of course) turn on the CC and enable the Audio Transcription. Between Nick's accent, and terminology like "crown chakra", the results are pretty hilarious.

"Not to spoil things, but for some comic relief (after you have watched it seriously of course) turn on the CC and enable the Audio Transcription. Between Nick's accent, and terminology like "crown chakra", the results are pretty hilarious."

Absolutely hilarious with the CC. I can see why the Audio Transcription is still in "Beta". I will now refer to the jhanic arc as "John Kerr".