WhoisMax

Hello everybody!

I just read "balanced effort and the 'chronic yogi'" on buddhist geeks!

Now i know:
1. iam a chronic yogi 2. i dont know how to change this 3. could need some good advice 4. have to get in contact with mr folk because what he says makes much sense to me! 5. would appreciate if he or someone else could show me "the way out of my homemade prison" 6. need to know "my part" in this play

To get a picture about me I would like to share with you some "bluepoints" of my "chronic life":
Past events: as a kid loved to lean out of the window (2 floor) and imagine myself to let go jump down head first. But always before my head hit the ground ... how can i describe it ... i vanished into a pure perfect blissful world. nothing no form no space no time no whatever like blank screen exept i was aware of all that. the whole thing took only an instanse (actually i dont know how long) and after coming out i was just kind of deeply happy satisfied content. Later could enter this "state" even without leaning out. When i became older (10 years up) i couldnt enter it anymore.
(By the way has someone a glue what this was/is?)

Then came a long sufferful period which peaked (17years) in suicidal thoughts (i saw life as "a pointless mess of suffering"). On the other side i had some strong faith inside that there must be a point in life/ a sense of life! Everything in nature seemed to have its duty/ its place... but i didnt know yet what mine was!
Continued...

Jump
As a young adult i had a conversation with an old man on a privat island in canada. I hoped to get from him some answers about the sense of life. First I told him my observations about life and then started to ask questions. whatever i asked instead to answer them directly he gave me always a questions back. his last "backquestion" was "who is max?"
it was night, starring in an open fire the whole time which to better concentrate while recalling my life and formulating my questions/ answering his questions. After i answered a few backquestions I started to saw THE thoughts/answers coming in slowmo out of nothing into my conciousness. i felt clearly that they were not "mine nor me". When i looked at my body i saw only "vibrations/energie/waves" again no "mine or me" at all. Still i tried to find the answer for: "who is max?". extreme long pauses between each thought. The mans voice also changed in tone and distance.finally i couldnt find a self so i answered like: "what other people see/think is max is max!" i knew the "max" in others heads is just an compound nothing real nothing stable. just a flux a joke. The sense of time stopped. peace/ contentment which i never felt before. i felt one with everything but at the same time not. Every experience seemed like new even nothing had changed (i was fully awake, looked around not kind of spaced up in deep samadhi!!). After a while a amazed thought came "Wow whats that!?" connected with a feeling that i like it/ want to stay with it and *bum* i was kicked out like falling down a skyscraper. I got the shock of my life scared but was blissed out at the same time. It was both in one couldnt decide if i was happy or sad. I sat there several minutes with a big freezed grin highly blissed out bright clear fully awake blank mind.
Continued...

After "back on earth" i thought "holy s***! what was this! i want to go back!"
On the next day i asked him how to enter this state again step by step. he instructed me in breathing meditation but after a few days i stopped doing it because soon after starting to count my breaths i got a very unpleasant lump in my throat.
the man said years later when i visited him again that many people experienced the same thing on this island. He calls it "opening a window".
But until today i newer experienced this "opening a window" again.
Continued...

Later back home i read many books asked people traveled around to find an answer what this was and how to reach it step by step again. Eventually i came in contact with the teachings of the buddha. Enlightenment seemed close to my experience so i started to meditate. i experienced various other stuff but newer that. Peacful states were no thinking judging was (first goenka course). Could sense on my body the energie of speech - if people lied or spoke the truth. Could forcast if it rains or not. Mind dropped inside body vanished. Mind seperated from body traveled around. Saw myself like in amirrow but much clearer. the mind observed "sense object contacts sense organ, stop, triggers feeling tone, stop, boredom cut" i saw this process has no owner just ariseing and passing. Natureprocess! One happening triggers another to araise and pass and so on. after this observation (automatic mindfulness no intention) i felt a few hundred kilos lighter (in the mind). Saw my thoughts and views are not mine that i suffer because of sth which is neighter me/mine nor has any substance. life is a joke!

status quo: i feel (whenever iam not mindful which is the most time) like in one big depression because i dont know where iam where to go. There is always this underlyinf restlessness this pressure present.
Continued...

futureplan: i feel like i turn rounf and round not move on in my practise. i practise reach some point where nothing happens again (equanimity), get stucked get bored stop. No patience. Lack of motivation. Lack of a map!!! Lack of feedback/ useful instructions!

Actually I want nothing more than to enter the stream which leads out of this misery. "Reach the secure shore!" "Get done what has to be done!" and dedicate the rest of my life to "help others out of this nightmare".

Its an up and down or round and round!
I could need a map. A feedbacksystem. Something which keeps me over sealevel (dis-embedded from whatever i experience not suffocate in it)...

I dont know what i actually need what is missing how to balance me out! thats why iam here or!

I would be very happy if someone could help me to start and keep the engine running! Or if someone could at least tell me what i experienced so far where iam where to go!?

So this was my little story... please feel free to comment


Big thanks for your patience!
My respect to you all!

Max

M a i l t o x a m *at* g m a i l . C o m

Welcome Max,

From what you write of your experience, looks like you crossed the 4th Arising and Passing Away nana, got dumped off in to the dukkha nanas, and at times you may have gotten to the either the 10th re observation nana or the 11th nana, Equanimity of formations nana, by what you wrote: " i practise reach some point where nothing happens again (equanimity) get stucked get bored stop. No patience. No fire! Lack of motivation. "

I was a chronic dark night yogi for years and a lot of what you explained was my experience too. I would get to an equanimous place and just get bored not knowing what to do for lack of feedback as well. What is you practice? What meditation practice do you adhere to? The Goenka sweeping method? Mahasi Sayadaw's noting technique? Other?

I would advise getting in contact with Kenneth Folk as soon as possible so he can get you practicing in order to get Stream Entry. You seem very primed for it. You are in the right place. People are popping like popcorn in a microwave here. Also, if you start to record your practice notes here, you might want to right very detailed reports focused on the phenomena, mental and physical, that you experience when you sit. Try and leave out all the speculation about where you are on the insight map. People here and especially Kenneth will be able to help you in that regard. Start to read all the material, essays and articles on the left hand side top corner of this website. Familiarize yourself with some of the lingo and practice notes of others as well to see what people do here.

Also, you write in a way that at times can be hard to understand. Try and keep your explanations as simple as possible. If you want to get to stream entry sooner rather than later, you are in THE place for that.

Welcome once again, WhoisMax. You'll eventually realizes what Max is no doubt soon enough

Metta and mudita,

Nick

I would like to add sth to my "futureplans".

All what i want is to know what this was in canada!? What triggers it? Where are the buttons? How to press them?

So far i didnt experienced greater peace than in that night.

Does someone have a plan? if yes please feel free to share it with me!!!

Thank you so much!!!

Hello nick!

Thanks a lot for your reply! Very helpful in order to get a bit orientated here! I will follow your advices!

I already read almost all the material on the left side.

I started meditation with goenka about 6 years ago. a lot of stuff happened there! Powerful course without doupt!
After this I continued with mahasi sayadaw for several months with breaks between. Nice events as well.
then i tried anapana. i came always to a point where i could follow every breath effortless hardly thoughts or sth else. then after a while the breath became more and more shallow/subtle which felt very unpleasant and fear to suffocate arose. So I stopped doing it.
i ever practised walking very slowly about 6m per hour! it was such sufferful that my mind finally found a place which the suffering could not reach. i switched between this place and the suffering but had to realize that this was no solution to stop that suffering, it was Just an escape!
i recently did/do something like noticing whatever arises without getting lost with or in it. I keep also being aware of the knower itself. means i try just to observe whatever comes into focus without messing around trying to change something. This is quite fun and enabled me to see what you call a&p!? Very "freeing" result! Very nice!

tomorrow more!

Thanks again, and how to get in contact with mr folk???

Ps: i edited the posts to make them a bit "more simple"!

Hi Max,

You can PM him where you see his posts. Click on his name. It will give the option to send a message to him. So what are you practicing now continuously? What are your goals? What do you wish to achieve? Because here the main goal for everyone is a happiness that does not depend on conditions. All other states and stages are just that, temporary states and stages. Following Kenneth's instructions will take you in the direction of a happiness that does not depend on conditions. Not in order to experience some out-of-this-world absorbed state or experience. Although these could happen as they are usually stage specific or side-effects from lots of concentration.

The primary goal in this place, and I would say THE goal is "a happiness that does not depend on conditions". You can do this via the 3 gears as presented and taught by Kenneth.

1st Gear: Developmental enlightenment or awakening via insight practice/Vipassana and going through the stages of insight/nanas and the stages of awakening i.e. Stream entry/1st path ---> 2nd path----> 3rd path ---->4th path

2nd Gear: Developing self-realisation ---> Dwelling in the Witness/ the I AM.

3rd Gear: Recognizing the clear light/primordial awareness that is ever-present.

May you attain/realize a happiness that does not depend on conditions, Max!

Nick

Good to have you aboard...

...back to conciousness!

Thanks again nick!

Ok i gonna do that.

What i practise now? continuously not continuously! I jump around. planless doing! i do not have a map or sth which gives me feedback where i am where im going and where to go!

Just read sth from cmarti.
"The seeking, the urge and the act, are done. There is nothing to go out and find because it's all right here, right in front of me. It always has been. Recognizing this and the utter simplicity of it clicked in my head as if a switch had been thrown."
"The import was thus -- awareness became a part of perception. All the time, always on, real time, any time perception."

This sounds good to me!!! if that is "happiness which doesnt depend on conditions" iam aboard!

Goals: just PEACE !

Thanks for your kind wishes!!

Claytonl: thank you!

"All what my mind wants is to dwell in that state in canada. What was it? What triggers it? Where are the buttons? ... You got my full attention!!!
I mean the great stuff came without effort... Now i practise sometimes 60 hours in a row without sleeping. able to watch then my body walking by itself... Since about 5 years. Nothing! this shows me that its not only effort (iam actually not lacking of it but its like i see no results!!) its also knowing to press the right buttons. So what i expect from sharing "my life" is that someone presses some buttons or shows me where the buttons are or which buttons i have to press.
I also observed that iam quite "responsiv" "sensitive" to "energies" means i can see how the interact with each other in the way of cause and effect one triggers the other and so on. So iam hopeful what you have to offer me.

Please feel free to comment advice press some buttons!!!

"

Hi WhoisMax,

Expectations are of the mind, essentially the same mind stuff as everything else. It is our conditioning that causes us to expect what Enlightenment is what results should come. For example if I practice 60 hours a week I should get so and so. Mean while clinging or grasping to the expectation is not seen for what it is and (spectulating) may hold us back. Interestingly postreptilian has just been talking about this. I have found it helpful to sort of believe nothing, accept what is. For EVERYTHING of mind is conditioned. By conditioned I mean we were told it or learned from society, parents etc, nothing is truly real, we make it real. Do not take seriously anything you have learned. Or more simply without the theory everything is alright as it is now, nothing is truly wrong or right.

My 2 cents.

In the previous post I have referenced postreptilian here is a quote from his post to which I was referring

- "I'm not reciting the insecurities just to be self-deprecating. I think there's something important about seeing *them* clearly. Every time I'm able to see the insecurity clearly, progress seems to occur."

When something is seen for what it is and that is it is essentially nothing, it does not get the way anymore.

Hello garyrh!

Thanks a lot for your "2 cents"!!

So absoluty true! I saw this as well last year but only once! I already forgot! An example that iam not the master of my perception!

After editing my posts i also realized how easy and fast views can change!

Thanks for "pressing some buttons"!

Will try today to post a report about my sitting.
some mental notes of the one in early morning (still drowsy): first focus abdomen+quickly changes to eyearea but still aware of breath+feeling like seeing with closed eyes+thoughts(planing reflecting worry)+iches+pain in various areas+dislike+thoughts+sounds+confusion+blur+(always back to eyearea)+comfort+pain stronger+iches more frequent+dislike+desire move backposture+pressure gets stronger+give in+drowsy+follow thoughts+sounds+restlessness+sit straight again+fresher+iches+pain+sleepy+... Time over
about 45min

Max

"some mental notes of the one in early morning (still drowsy): first focus abdomen+quickly changes to eyearea but still aware of breath+feeling like seeing with closed eyes+thoughts(planing reflecting worry)+iches+pain in various areas+dislike+thoughts+sounds+confusion+blur+(always back to eyearea)+comfort+pain stronger+iches more frequent+dislike+desire move backposture+pressure gets stronger+give in+drowsy+follow thoughts+sounds+restlessness+sit straight again+fresher+iches+pain+sleepy+... Time over"-WhoisMax

Great report, Max. This is the way forward. Before you can answer the question "who is Max?" you must find out what is going on right here, right now. We will eventually get to "who?" For now, though, it will be enough to answer the question, "What?"

Let the thinking be as it is. Don't chase it and don't push it away. Just continue to answer the question "What is going on now?" The question is answered every time you note. This is the way forward.

Thank you very much kenneth!

I will follow your wise advice!

Any suggestions for dealing with sleepiness and restlessness/agitation?

How often should i report or what kind of feedback do you need, how detailed? I sit and walk several hours per day.

Yesterday i wanted to be very attentiv. I started with warm up 4 protections (i noted "thoughts!"/lookes at the thinking process while contemplating), struggled a bit to stay with the topic because other thoughts interrupted, came to the 3rd topic and then....???? next thing i remember was i catched some thoughts, very fresh feeling, looked at the watch and saw already one hour had passed! It is very unusual but i can not remember what there was between. I guess i slept but must have been very deep because cannot remember that i have dreamed! I was some kind of dissapointed because i couldnt remember anything (lost awareness totally)!

Evening: walking: catched thoughts better than usual, frequence degreased, aware of walking and breath as well the watcher itself, objectified thoughts/vedana which normally follow/identify, more and more subtle feelings in feets while walking
Sitting: straight away pain and discomfort, restlessness and agitation, no patience, endured 20min
Walking: restlessness and agitation depression predominant

Today morning: sitting very sleepy, pain, gave way, no thoughts just breath, lost awareness, dozed

Edit: added some more informations about my "black out"

)

Great great great!!!

Thank you very much kenneth and all other good souls here!!

I see results!

First two days attached to "i need to report sth good" "i must experience this and that" which resulted in frustration restlessness agitation like reported before.
Read some other posts around here and realized how to solve this! Actually nothing wrong beside MY VIEW! So true the noble path starts with the RIGHT VIEW!

Last session: Standing one hour walking one hour sitting one hour
Walking: First it was a mess because "i tried to make it right". Then the "wanting to make it right" was seen. then the eg "i have to do it like this and that" = inner voice was seen. Then the connected "me" to every experience was seen. Now the noting went into the background. Subtle peaceful breath and vibrations in mouth area came into foreground. the observer "sat now into to seat" and just watched the objects from distance come and go. Everything underlying joy was registrated....

things start to get recognized which never have been! i will continue practising if sth new happens i will let you know.

Again i just wanted to say THANK YOU for your reports/ sharing your experiences!!! Very helpful for others like me!!

Max

hello!

Before eating i resolved to be very mindful and sth. confusing happened. The noting got like "out of control"! It was without the normal background feeling of effort. If i paid attantion or not it just rushed by itself. then confusion/worry arose that this is not the correct kind of noting. Even when i was following the worries and doupts the noting kept on. even faster i could follow! does sound strange or!? I mean it was real time noting of each little movement! but somehow "ownerless" as iam not the "driver". I was very confused if i should let it be like this or try to interrupt/get back in charge. But this force was somehow stronger than my confused mind. The perception of "i" was missing/out of my control that was the strange thing! Beside of this the noting was better faster more vocabulary than normal!

I also noticed a few times today the "permanent seeming cool feeling" on the top of my head came back. i noticed this sensation years ago when i practised the first time meditation (goenka). Now it appears again! Somehow strange because its always there. a cool scull! It moves from time to time from one side to the other. If i look at it (like right now) it becomes more cool more vivid still gentle. also gentle vibrations (sometimes showers/waves whole body) occur more and more often during the day.
I dont know if this is important but i read here so many times people talk about this exclusivly!
This all happens outside the formal practise sessions. The noting starts to cover more and more of the day (except i read posts here, get absorbed loose mindfulness).

A series of quick sits 20 to 30min
first time verbal noting, very slow once in many seconds, beginning pain in throat, unpleasant breathing, neutral heat in hands + pulsing which changed in frequence and rhythmen, tension back, went back amd forth, slow noting, then some point breath pleasant clear, pain in throat disappeared, always long pauses between each noting, many shifts, sharp pain in thumb opend eyes to see if mosquito, continued...
next sitting
Quite same until see like ants on tv screen short moment, later eyes movement became obvious, flickering and strobing, lights bigger and smaller, center point rings went around changed in speed, eyes movement more speed, etc. occured 3 or 4 ti!es with flickering and eyemovement but first time most intense longest and most variations. It was together with intense wave of body vibrations etc

I go back playing

After making again a bit love with my thoughts back to the thing which is the way forward.

while noting loud yesterday i saw also the first time real pictures in 32bit of some stuff i saw just before the sits. Real memory pictures in colour sharp vivid sometimes mixed up with other pictures i never saw or can not remember.

Walking yesterday evening: started with usual noting of the walking steps by some time i "looked" in some pleasant state (smiled slightly all the time, felt pleased and content, quite and peaceful, fully aware of movements, breathing pleasant and clear) for about 30 to45min. Thoughts or emotions came rarly up but mind managed always not to loose this state/ not to get involved in them. I was suprised how well he detached from these other sense impressions. But now i can say i fust indulged attached to this pleasent state.

Sit: Silent noting mind got always lost dull, lost awareness, ... I will try to find an interesting mind object or "job" for today evening.

just before writing two short 20min sits.
Tried again loud noting. First sit i resolved that i want "stream entry" but got "sleep entry"! Mind seemed to have no plan what to do/ no energie.
Second sit i resolved like yesterday i want to see a&p clearly. Right away i could note the pulsing in my hands and underarms. About "too many" pulses per second to count. A strong puls every second and many soft ones between. pain in my left foot came and went by. Unpleasant heat mixed with pain in my hands very strong few moments later changed into subtle. The noticed pain eg in legs foots was often also followed by little energie waves. after some time thought came to watch eye area. Nothing special was noticed. Thoughts arose more frequent. Back to pulsing thoughts more less.

While writing these i observed pulsing in face and head as well a constant gentle cool pleasant "tension" around top of the head

I continue with "noticing what happens now" ...

The evening session 3.5hours

Today i wrote the 4 foundations on a small piece of paper with the intention to get a taste of this practise/ get used to it.
I startet normal walking leftrightleftright. contemplated about the technique and my situation. after not long the inner smile state showed up again. I enjoyed it a while then startet to apply the first foundation. Instead of leftright i switched to pressure release coolness pressure (this was one step divided into 4 feelings/parts as i sensed them). I did this for about 30min to 60min. Many times i noted thoughts feeling tones and mind states coming along so i applied the rest of the 4 foundations as well. Noted bored pleasent planning thought pressure restless etc
Sitting: instead in&out i noted release pressure hold release pressure hold felt quite good not as sleepy as usual.
Observations: some usual thought patterns came up with which normally indentify. it was the desire to get a drink/hungry. it lost its urgent "must do" pressure after noting it. I was quite surprised noted "surprised". Later thoughts came up that if i continue to practise like this, "max" has a hard time to find a place for him! The normal mental pressure from thoughts and mind states got no foot in/no hold or at least not long.

Questions and request:
Could someone give me a taste of 2nd gear?
How do you approche sleepiness dullness. Just note it? What is its cause beside food and sleep matters? I guess the technique i use for sitting does right now not stimulate enough (noting breath + counting) because usually dull and sleepy. How do you raise energy?

I will continue the 4 foundations like described on the "welcome page".

Hello!

Yesterday evening was the first time since weeks that i could sit without the symtoms of being dull nor sleepy. I watched during the whole sit without much effort the pulsing (heartbeat) in the abdomen.
After that i continued standing for about 45min focus again on abdomen. the only distinctiv difference between the sit before was that after a while the pulsing started to spin/ to cycle vertical around itself. It got faster and this "spin ball" moved slowly up and farer away. I lost it about the height of my head. After a while a new one arose (second time) but now it cycled horizontal. Again changed in distance and speed. Tried to control it but lost it in the end faster than the first one.
During walking i tried 2nd gear without getting clear results. Tested many things which i read in the forum.

4 foundations: i could dis-embed of many things especially normally unseen mind-states which would have made the evening session a pain. Like being bored restless unsatisfied...

"4 foundations: i could dis-embed of many things especially normally unseen mind-states which would have made the evening session a pain. Like being bored restless unsatisfied..."

Awesome! Sounds like you're making good progress with the technique. Keep us posted!