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1st 2nd 3rd 4th paths, 1st 2nd 3rd 4th waters -question

  • refred
  • Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65541 by refred
Hello all. I am fascinated with the discussions on this forum. Thank you for all that you have done and do.
I have a question relating to the first through fourth paths that are discussed here.

Are the first, second, third, and fourth paths roughly correspondent to the first, second, third, and fourth waters(these are stages of prayer/contemplation) of St. Teresa of Avila?
Thank you for your consideration.
  • kennethfolk
  • Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65542 by kennethfolk
Hi Refred,

Do you know of any good online references to the four waters? I'd be interested to find out more.

  • refred
  • Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65545 by refred
The grades of prayer described by St. Teresa in The Life do not correspond to the division of prayer that is usually given in manuals of spiritual theology. There are several reasons for this, and the first one is possibly the fact of the discrepancy of 15 years between her first and the last major work. Secondly, the precise terminology to describe some the transitional grades of prayer between discursive mental prayer and the prayer of the transforming union did not come into common use until the seventeenth century. Thirdly, since she was writing from her own experience, it is possible that St. Teresa had passed immediately from discursive meditation to a high degree of infused, mystical prayer
  • refred
  • Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65544 by refred
The second method of watering a garden is by means of a waterwheel to which dippers are attached. As the wheel is turned, the water is poured into a trough that carries the water to the garden. St. Teresa explains that this stage, in which "the soul begins to recollect itself, borders on the supernatural. . . . This state is a recollecting of the faculties within the soul, so that its enjoyment of that contentment may provide greater delight" (The Life, chap. 13).
The third type of watering a garden is by irrigation by means of a running stream. It doesn't call for human effort as in the two previous methods. Prayer at this stage is mystical; that is, all the faculties are centered on God. "This kind of prayer," says St. Teresa, "is quite definitely a union of the entire soul with God" (The Life, chap. 17). She calls it a "sleep of the faculties" because they are totally occupied with God. "Not one of them, it seems, ventures to stir, nor can we cause any of them to be active except by striving to fix our attention very carefully on something else, and even then I don't think we could succeed entirely in doing so" (The Life, chap. 16).
The fourth and final method for watering a garden is by means of falling rain. This stage of prayer is totally mystical, meaning that it is infused by God and is not attained by human effort. It is called the prayer of union, and it admits of varying degrees.
  • refred
  • Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65543 by refred
Here is a brief explanation of the waters.

The Life
In her first work St. Teresa explains the grades of prayer by using the symbol of the "four waters," or more precisely, the four methods of watering a garden. The first method is by drawing water from a well by means of a bucket attached to a rope. This is the first stage of prayer and it includes vocal prayer and discursive meditation. The individual is active, exercising the faculties and reaping what benefit it can through one's own efforts. But lest the beginners think too much and turn their discursive meditation into an intellectual exercise, St. Teresa advises them "not to spend all their time in doing so. Their method of prayer is most meritorious, but since they enjoy it so much, they sometimes fail to realize that they should have some kind of a sabbath, that is, a period of rest from their labors. . . . Let them imagine themselves, as I have suggested, in the presence of Christ, and let them continue conversing with him and delighting in him, without wearying their minds or exhausting themselves by composing speeches to him" (The Life, chap. 13).
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  • refred
  • Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65546 by refred
This is from a work later in her life that further subdivides the 'waters'. Here the mile posts are called 'mansions'. Kinda neat...

4. The first three mansions of the Interior Castle correspond with the 'first water,' or the prayer of Meditation, explained in ch. xi-xiii. of the Life; the fourth mansion, or the prayer of Quiet, with the 'second water,' ; the fifth mansion, or the prayer of Union, with the 'third water,' ; and the sixth mansion, ecstasy, etc., with the 'fourth water,'
  • IanReclus
  • Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65547 by IanReclus
Dunno if those match up with the Paths (I'm not far enough along them to be able to say) but I do really like these "waters". I also see similarities between some of these and the various meditation methods described in Kenneth's 3 Speed transmission. 4th Water and 3rd gear seem potentially similar.

Just my two cents.
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