A&P and Mystical Experience

I'll post this question here, though being new to the discussions, I don't know if it's appropriate to ask.

In Sayadaw U Pandita's book In This Very Life (Boston, Wisdom, 1992, p. 272), the stage of insight into arising and passing away is just a very clear awareness of each psychophysical phenomenon's arising and passing away, as the name suggests.

However, here and in MCTB, not only is A&P defined differently, but also "often it involves unitive experiences, 'God-union,' 'the white light,' mystical visions, and sublime ecstasy." It is a "peak spiritual experience, often a completely life-changing event."

This description reminds me of what Michael Washburn's Embodied Spirituality in a Sacred World (Albany, SUNY, 2003, p. 27) calls "awakening." By this Washburn means the powerful emergence of repressed psychic energy from the Dynamic Ground.

My question is this: Are the two -- clear awareness of arising and passing away, and powerful mystical experiences -- necessarily related?

They have been for me. I can't speak for anyone else. I do think the other stages can give mystical experiences as well, though the A&P is the stereotypical one I guess (everything is awesome, there can be lights, feel extremely content, feel unitive, feel open and light, creative, pain is no big deal, etc).

I didn't write a very detailed description in my journal but here's something from one of those periods for me

"Spent yesterday feeling amazing. Doing normal routine things had a totally different feel. Kissing my girlfriend felt incredible. There was no me getting in the way (on the mind level) and it felt like everything was so free flowing. There were still pains and aches and hunger and the like, but even those were seen in the context of the whole of which they were only a small part and as such there was no suffering from the pain."

After a while, going through that stage loses the wow factor to a large extent.

"I'll post this question here, though being new to the discussions, I don't know if it's appropriate to ask.

In Sayadaw U Pandita's book In This Very Life (Boston, Wisdom, 1992, p. 272), the stage of insight into arising and passing away is just a very clear awareness of each psychophysical phenomenon's arising and passing away, as the name suggests.

However, here and in MCTB, not only is A&P defined differently, but also "often it involves unitive experiences, 'God-union,' 'the white light,' mystical visions, and sublime ecstasy." It is a "peak spiritual experience, often a completely life-changing event."

This description reminds me of what Michael Washburn's Embodied Spirituality in a Sacred World (Albany, SUNY, 2003, p. 27) calls "awakening." By this Washburn means the powerful emergence of repressed psychic energy from the Dynamic Ground.

My question is this: Are the two -- clear awareness of arising and passing away, and powerful mystical experiences -- necessarily related?"

From my own experience it was both. At least the first time it happened on a Vipassana course. I had the top of my head "pop" and the mind and body opened up and in every corner wherever attention was placed in and on the body, there were vibrations that arose and pass away so fast it feels like I am this big battery full of vibey energy. I could sweep the body in one breath as there were no blind spots, no gross sensations...just arising and passing away subtle sensations/ vibrations. Very obvious insight. Plus I felt so much love and vibey union with the universe vibes that I felt it was significant 'supernatural" and "mystical".

Very interesting, mumuwu and Nikolai. Reading your experiential accounts reminds me of the disclaimer at the front of birding books: "If the book and the bird disagree, always believe the bird."

"Very interesting, mumuwu and Nikolai. Reading your experiential accounts reminds me of the disclaimer at the front of birding books: "If the book and the bird disagree, always believe the bird."-DerekACameron"

Wonderful! Yes, that's the gist of it, all right. Always believe the bird (especially if you are the bird).

It's always appropriate to ask questions like this, Derek. Feel free to ask away

Although the states and stages of meditation share some deep features, the surface features vary widely between individuals. Of the myriad reasons why there are variations of experience, I hypothesize that the intensity of the experience may depend on how freely psychic energy (kundalini, chi) moves throughout one's body-mind. The content of the experience, if there are visions or early insights, usually corresponds in one way or another with the content of one's unconscious mind. Cultural and religious factors (which are often inseparable) play a big role in what is seen, heard, felt, and/or understood.

Some people tread a very "wet" path of insight (visions, energetic release, deep feelings), while others experience more of a "dry" path, which lacks those things. This is why, as you said, one should always believe the bird. And as Kenneth said, "especially if you are the bird." Recognizing the deep features of states and stages can aid us in figuring out what to do next (e.g. how to get unstuck when stuck). But the content specifics -- though fun to share with others for the sake of amusement -- really aren't all that important. Though, it is important to know that such experiences are a possibility, and that, ultimately, they shouldn't be clung to.

Sorry if this is a bit long winded. I was on a roll

~Jackson

"Sorry if this is a bit long winded."

Not at all -- that's very helpful!