Done and Done-er

Done and Done-er

or
Mastering the core pointing instruction of the Buddha

Key Reference:

MN 1
www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.001.than.html

I don't post much having continually come to a deeper appreciation of the limits of my communications skills but I thought this might be a topic for fruitful discussion. So I will present a few of my reflections and close with an open question for anyone and everyone, regardless of where they may be in their processes and on the path because I would appreciate feedback from anyone and everyone on this subject.

In recent months I've been enjoying a pleasant email discussion with a good friend about our lives and practices, and ranging across a number of interesting Dhamma subjects. Just the other day we were engaging in a topic related to the expressions of various views about the path and the practice and MN 1 came to mind. So I read the sutta again a few times and reflected on it at length last night and this contemplation on the central theme of MN 1 has continued throughout today as well.

I held the central point continually in mind and together with that I allowed my mind to range across whatever difficult issues of the texts and the many varieties of teachings and practices that have emerged since then. I was repeatedly struck by how this simple pointing instruction continually demonstrated a path whereby one could travel from merely subscribing to a reasonable view of a difficult subject to realizing a direct knowledge about it and thereby arriving at a clear, true and unwaveringly certain understanding of the subject, thereby putting the subject and any further related concerns fully to rest.

It became ever more apparent that here was a pointing instruction, a method and a technique which was in it's clarity and simplicity the very essence of all effective pointing instructions, techniques and methods.

Central to the instruction is the repeated phrase "he does not conceive'¦"

Conceiving is related to the rest of the discourse by means of four categories or kinds of persons.

I'll put these kinds of persons into the context of the discussions and terminology employed throughout the three Hurricane Ranch discussions found at Interactive Buddha, namely 'what is doing it?' and 'what is getting it done?'.

The first presentation is of an ordinary uninstructed person who does not know or practice or function in accordance with this pointing instruction and so they are considered completely ignorant or blind in this sense. So it is phrased a little differently as 'he conceives' and then the various examples of conceiving are given. So it might be said this is the essential difference between those who know and do and have done what needs to be done and someone who does not even know and cannot therefore do what needs to be and therefore cannot possibly awaken to the essential core or complete truth of this point. They just 'don't get it'.

The second presentation is of someone who has been given the pointing instruction, understands it correctly and is practicing or training with this 'point' in mind. He has been told what 'TO DO' and is someone who 'GETS IT' and is 'DOING IT'. It is not specified to what extent he has or has not DONE IT but it is specified that he does know and understand what TO DO and is DOING IT.

The third presentation is of someone who is an Arahant or has finished the training and so he is described as someone who GETS IT, DOES IT and has DONE IT to the extent that he gives rise to no further delusions about anything. I won't try to define ' no further delusions whatsoever' as that is beside the point.
cont.

The key distinction is that the Arahant has GOT IT, DOES IT unwaveringly and therefore in the most vital regards has GOT IT DONE.

The last presentation is about the Buddha and the only added distinction in this last case is that the Buddha speaks of himself as one who has GOT IT DONE COMPLETELY. So I take this to mean that he has GOT IT, DOES IT and has DONE IT in regards to everything. So I take it that this is an order of magnitude beyond simply doing it in regards to delusion. The way I have come to see this distinction is that the Arahant has mastered not conceiving while the Buddha has perfected not conceiving.

In any case, in the course of applying this pointing instruction I came to see the seemly inexhaustible practical relevance of it, regardless of where one may be on the path. Regardless of whether or not one is just beginning to practice, or has crossed the A&P, has entered the stream, done what needs to be done or become a Buddha the core of this technique is consistent. That essential core being, DO NOT CONCEIVE. (big period)

So, just in these recent hours I have come to an ever deeper appreciation of what is meant by 'conceiving' and what is meant by 'not conceiving' in so many ways that I think I could probably write books about it for several lifetimes without leaving the topic. But enough about me!

So, what do you good people think?

Do you think this pointing instruction as essential as it appears? Can you see relevance for effective noting practice? To determining the essential efficacy of any given technique? To arisings and passings, causes and effects? To achieving the PCE? To developing and perfecting concentration and insight? To penetrating the subtle workings of causal and resultant kamma or of comprehending dependent conditionality? To walking the straight and narrow path and eventually laying down the burden.
cont.

To perfecting the great way of a Bodhisattva and becoming a Buddha? To resolving knotty issues within dualities and nondualities? Etc, etc?

The question for everyone is, in simplest terms, in regards to conceiving or conception and not conceiving or non-conception, in regards to this pointing instruction, what is getting it, doing it and getting it done? Further, in what ways and to what extent can this practice be applied?

That's all from me. Over to you then.

upekkha
-triplethink

I really appreciate your prompt to examine the Mulapariyaya Sutta: aka The Root Sequence. It is some great dharma for sure! I remember Bikkhu Bodhi saying how he initially started to read suttas as a young yogi and ofcourse he started with the first sutta in the book MN#1... He commented on how totally baffeled he was when he first read it because it is one of the richest and most complex suttas in the whole pitica.

It seems like what the sutta is saying is actually pretty fundimental though in that it identifies three distinct types of conception: wrong views, craving, and conceit.

Wrong views take the form of conceptualizing because the dharma is not seen directly, craving takes the form of a desire for continued existance (or a desire for continued non-existance) and conceit takes the form of compairing one's self to another.

the sutta goes on to say:
-The uninstructed worldly person generates all three types of conception in every instance they perceive something.
-Those yogis who have attained one of the first three paths in doing so will have eliminted only the conception associated with wrong views, but they will still have conception in the forms of both craving and conceit.
-Arhats and the Buddha have eliminated conception on all three levels.

After bashing my head up against it for a awhile that's basically what I am getting from the sutta. I really like MN#1 though, especially since I couldn't make heads or tales of it at first glance. I can totally relate to what Bikkhu Bodhi was saying.

Bhikkhu Bodhi wrote a book on MN 1 with a complete translation of the discourse and selected extracts from the sutta commentaries and notes on translation and the text. It's worth reading if you are interested and I highly recommend it. The sutta as posted on ATI is highly abridged and there are some important points and much of the accompanying text missing from it there.

There is an online copy at Goggle books, here:
tiny.cc/dcdd5

One of the first teachings i remember hearing from Joseph Goldstein in the 1980's was..."there is no thought worth thinking" I remember the rebellion my mind had with that thought. I have taught this to my students for the last 15 years and it always brings a really strong reaction and resistance. Since I teach shamata and vippassana i usually say that this idea is really worth considering as true while doing these meditations.
This month I am sittiing daily in a monthlong dzochen retreat with Tzokni Rinpoche. The text we study is "Three words striking the vital point" by Paltul Rinpoche. While the text is quite clear that "passing thoughts without exception leave no trace in the state of recognition...as in the analogy of drawing on water", as one is in the stage of path and practice (as I am) concepts can be seen as either helpful or harmful. Helpful if they lead to liberation. An example is i am in rigpa or empty cognizance and something is noticed --not a thought per se--maybe the start of an emotion and rigpa is not happening and a thought emerges that says...ahh there is the start of an emotion..see that, liberate that and rigpa is re-established instantly. A useful use of concept. As Tzokni stated..."don't make concepts the enemy".
In a personal way, this pointing out of DO NOT CONCEIVE touches me now in a way that not only do i not want to argue it but a palpable heart and mind release happens when i read it. And frankly your communication style is great. As a lurker mostly, on DHO, your's was the voice i was always looking for first. Ahh perception.
Sincerely Shoshana

This huge link is making it really hard to read your journal as it fixes the width really wide. Perhaps you could edit it and replace it with a tinurl ( tiny.cc/ )

I thought I would comment on what MN 1 has meant and means to me a little since there hasn't been much comment from others.

I was raised by a man with a bible and a belt. If there is any goodness or kindness in me it was passed along to me by him and my mother. I was instructed daily about the primary importance of the salvation of my soul. I searched endlessly for that soul and the spirit of God somewhere within me. I could find only changing thoughts and sensations and I was tormented by my apparent soullessness.

When I was about 14 I meditated for the first time after reading a short tract on breath meditation which suggested focusing on the breath and inquiring within. I sat down and focused on the breath, relaxing into it and began to look for the soul. Within about half an hour I passed through the four jhana and let go of the body. Passing then through the four formless qualities of the mind and nowhere recognizing a soul I let go of consciousness entirely as well. Entering complete cessation there was the only an unformable recognition, 'this is the end of everything that is me, there is nothing more' and 'this is perfect peace'. After this it was clear, there is no me, only momentary appearances, arising and passing that is all 'I' will ever be.

What is left when 'I' am gone is an immense and imponderable universe, both within and without. Any 'I' that arises, anywhere, in any way, is dust in the eye of clear seeing into an immensity that will suffer no namings.

We can map the ways of gradually removing this dust of 'I', layer by layer, room by room. We can model the imponderable immensity that is seen when the dust is removed, but all such maps and models are likewise made of dust. Letting go of all of the dust, only clear seeing remains, untraceable, imperturbable, unnameable.

Wonderful!

I have been reading Bikkhu Bodhi's book after you posted the link, tiplethink. I will comment when I finish it.



Edited to add: Awesome last post!!!!