Pure Land Jhanas - Reserved for anagamis and arahants only?

I was reading a great link posted by awouldbehipster on attaining pure land jhanas and noticed he mentioned that pure land jhanas are only attainable by anagamis and arahants. Interestingly enough, a few months ago after going in and out of the 8th jhana for a few minutes, I decided to notice the vibrations surrounding the witness at the time and went ahead and experience a slow but solid sense of liberation and noticed a strong sensation (a dense vibration around the 3rd eye). My vision became sort of panoramic and if felt like surrounded by a greyish dense but light and blissful fog and was feeling a very soothing cool vibrations within my body (very refreshing feeling). It was so blissful, subtle and relieving that I figured I had to have visited the first pure land jhana. I found myself able to access this state whenever I could dedicate a good hour to an hour and a half. I went ahead afterwards and found some descriptions on the state and the descriptions seem to more or less fit what I had experienced (later. after watching Kenneth's and Nikolai's journey through the 13 jhanas I felt I had no doubt I had experienced pure land jhana 1). I know it's very easy to compound the experience specially once one has heard or read what to expect on a specific practice/state. The interesting thing is that I did not find any practical description of the state prior to experiencing it. I'm very certain I have not attained to 3rd path, but something seems odd about about my experience (as I'm only supposed to have access to the first 8 jhanas).
Any opinion, suggestions, thoughts on that matter, particularly from the more experienced practitioners is greatly appreciated!
Thank you!
Jorge Freddy

Here's some interesting info.

Question: I've noticed that my cycles through the 11th ñana of Second Path is accompanied with lots of activity in the Brow or Third-Eye chakra. As I relax and stay present with the energy with equanimity, the Fruition moment occurs and the energy moves noticeably upward to the top of my head (Crown chakra). I noticed a similar movement/process during First Path, but it wasn't as obvious (I guess my concentration is much better now).

Answer: Your experience of "lots of activity at the brow chakra" is consistent with my own experience pre-3rd Path. I told my teacher, Bill Hamilton, that it felt like something was hatching out up there. It kind of pulsed and itched and rooted around.

So... here's some really provocative stuff: Pre-3rd Path is the best time to discover and explore what I call the Pureland jhanas. The circuit hasn't yet been completed from the level of the brow/3rd eye chakra, so you can focus on that chakra without fear of going beyond the Pureland territory and thereby missing it. There are two ways to develop Pureland 1, and they work together.

1) Recite "Namo Amitabha," understanding that Amitabha Buddha *promised* you a place in the Pureland if you sincerely invoked his name. I know, it's lame and irrational, but it worked for me.

2) Focus on the brow chakra with the samatha technique. You are looking for exquisitely pleasant sensations that make all prior jhanas pale in comparison, as well as a palpable sense of gratitude. (You might even find yourself feeling grateful to Amitabha Buddha...hmmm, weird.)

By the way, the brow chakra activity isn't just due to improved concentration. You are building the circuitry. It's physio-energetic growth. Psychic anatomy. What a trip!


via:

I would also like to add that at some point I began noticing a sequence of sensations in the head that were revolving around several specific points (mainly third eye and then top of the head). This would always behave the same and occur after 8th Jhana and then repeat in reverse on the way back down (prior to 8th Jhana).

Recently the activity at the crown seems to be associated with the most amazingly positive sensations I've experienced in meditation. They aren't harsh at all just beautifully positive and there is, as it says here, a great sense of gratitude with it.

There also seems to be a spot around the third eye, but maybe little bit deeper into the head, that I can feel and put pressure on at any time and generate some pleasant feelings and concentration.

It is hard to say if it is genuine pure abode or not. After one month after 2nd path I was accessing Pure abode type absorptions that seemed to correspond to the descriptions given by Kenneth. But when I sat in the Witness I would reach the 8th only until later on they appeared without manipulation. (after a certain "special" fruition if i remember correctly). It is hard to say really.

Sit in the Witness and let the jhanas arise without manipulation. When you get to the 8th you will probably feel the mind start to "expect" the new experience. Make more love to the Witness. By this I mean focus PURELY on the Witness and forget jhanas. I would always see this subtle manipulation through expecting a certain experience after the 8th jhana so I think I was still compounding a jhana. Make love to the Witness as much as possible. Use it like a kasina and let go of expectation and see if the new experience arises after the 8th. If it doesn't you will know you were compounding, and if it does, well, keep practicing because all those paths on the way to 4th are just rest points. 4th path is where you want to be.

Edited to add: The iron skull cap, third eye headaches, and kundalini up the back side were my 2nd path symptoms too.

Nick, for myself, it was once I started riding the arc as the witness that I noticed the stuff after 8th. I wasn't looking for anything or manipulating which is the neat part.

"Nick, for myself, it was once I started riding the arc as the witness that I noticed the stuff after 8th. "


4th path all the way baby!!!!!

"
So... here's some really provocative stuff: Pre-3rd Path is the best time to discover and explore what I call the Pureland jhanas. The circuit hasn't yet been completed from the level of the brow/3rd eye chakra, so you can focus on that chakra without fear of going beyond the Pureland territory and thereby missing it. There are two ways to develop Pureland 1, and they work together.

1) Recite "Namo Amitabha," understanding that Amitabha Buddha *promised* you a place in the Pureland if you sincerely invoked his name. I know, it's lame and irrational, but it worked for me.
"

mumuwu: I find it interesting that you have used this technique in the past. I seem to become more of a skeptic as my practice goes along, which is serving a good purpose of taking my experiences truly for what they are rather than for what I think they are, but at the same time I may be starting to question certain practices I simply shouldn't be questioning. I have heard Kenneth mentoned during an interview on buddhist geeks that he first reached the pure land jhanas following the "Amitabha Buddha" invoking (I had read something about this before on a pure land article before also). Every time I have had that experience (of what seems to have pure land jhana nature) I have said mentally "Amitabha Buddha" and focused on how greatful I am that such place exists as I say it (I had actually written on my practice notes how this works). You say it's lame and irrational, and I would have to agree with you, yet this seems to somehow allow "something" to happen or to manifest. If this worked for Kenneth and you, and it's working for me (if indeed, it is some pure land jhana-like experience I'm encountered) there must be a common element that brings it all together somehow.
Thanks so much for your input mumuwu!

Yeah, I just posted that verbatim from Kenneth's site (the link I posted). I've not really tried Amitabha's name and gotten those sorts of things going on, it began happening around the same time that the I began riding the arc as witness.

But yeah, awesome that you're experience lines up with Kenneth's somewhat.

Nikolai's Practice notes (his original ones) go into detail about him accessing compound jhanas that he thought were pureland. I suggest you check that out as well.

"
Sit in the Witness and let the jhanas arise without manipulation. When you get to the 8th you will probably feel the mind start to "expect" the new experience. Make more love to the Witness. By this I mean focus PURELY on the Witness and forget jhanas. I would always see this subtle manipulation through expecting a certain experience after the 8th jhana so I think I was still compounding a jhana. Make love to the Witness as much as possible. Use it like a kasina and let go of expectation and see if the new experience arises after the 8th. If it doesn't you will know you were compounding, and if it does, well, keep practicing because all those paths on the way to 4th are just rest points. 4th path is where you want to be.

Edited to add: The iron skull cap, third eye headaches, and kundalini up the back side were my 2nd path symptoms too."

Nick,

You are totally right! I have noticed how the mind "expects" certain things to manifest during the sitting. As always your comments and suggestions are quite useful. I specially like the "make love" to the witness part! hehe! I find that to be the way to reach fruition while in equanimity. I will focus purely on the witness during my next samatha jhana sitting and see if I can catch myself "expecting" and therefore compounding higher jhanas.
Thanks again!
Jorge Freddy

"Yeah, I just posted that verbatim from Kenneth's site (the link I posted). I've not really tried Amitabha's name and gotten those sorts of things going on, it began happening around the same time that the I began riding the arc as witness.
"

Oh! my bad! I thought you were saying that this had worked for you too in the past. I wonder if there isn't an ingredient of "surrender" when one invokes Amitabha Buddha and hence can also access pure land jhanas. Certainly there must be some truth about it (at least if it's working with those on 3rd and 4th path). Perhaps you should give it a try and see if it works for you as well!

I'll look at Nick's old practice notes and read up on his experiencing compounding jhanas.
Thanks again muwuwu!!
P.S. I did not see the link you had posted originally BTW! sorry about that!
JF

No need to apologize (I could have been clearer but I was right on the character count limit). I saw what you did, looks like something I would do too LOL.)

Doing that definitely generates some positive feelings and gets some pressure going at the third eye, but I'll stick to the witness practice method instead for now. Although you have my interest peaked now

"I wonder if there isn't an ingredient of "surrender" when one invokes Amitabha Buddha and hence can also access pure land jhanas. Certainly there must be some truth about it (at least if it's working with those on 3rd and 4th path). Perhaps you should give it a try and see if it works for you as well!"

An invocation (without doubt and with humbleness) is in fact complete surrender. To invoque and ASK for something to a "higher being" is by default a surrendering of one's will. The only way to prevent this type of surrendering is by doubting everything (because the invocation seems irrational). When one doubts, there is no surrender at all. No 3rd gear, no 2nd gear.

If one truly surrenders his/her own will over and over, one will definitely access pure lands, when one sees that "will" is just another object to be contemplated, one receives wisdom. Which is the same thing as cultivating 12-15 ñanas. This is the basic principle of tantric buddhism.

Saludos amigo

That's really neat. I see it the same way, although I didn't know about the connection to pureland jhanas, but it makes sense.

"If one truly surrenders his/her own will over and over, one will definitely access pure lands, when one sees that "will" is just another object to be contemplated, one receives wisdom. Which is the same thing as cultivating 12-15 ñanas. This is the basic principle of tantric buddhism.

Saludos amigo "

Alex: Agreed! it's amazing how things just "flow" once one surrenders and totally let nature manifest as it is, without any clinging. It also seems to get easier to surrender as one attains higher paths.

Thanks so much guys!

So I took the time today to see what would happen if I did no manipulation whatsoever in reaching jhanas to see what would happened after reaching the 8th jhana. Things started to slow down after hitting the 5th jhana, so I guess I "cheated" and started manipulating (by actively shifting my attention) my journey thru the 8th jhana, with the intention to get there soon and then really observe what would happen. After a few minutes of going in and out of it, I invoked Amitabha Buddha 3 times (as I have always done) and tried my best to simply observe in the witness. within seconds I started feeling strong tingling around the third eye, the cooling and relaxing sensation around my body, and the incredibly blissful, unattached, and freed feeling I have done in the past when I have experience what I have been thinking to be pure land 1. I don't know if due to the manipulation after the 5th jhana may have carried some compounding into the 8th and then taking me somewhere that is not PL1 but fits the descriptions or what not. Just thought it was very interesting.
On a slightly different note, I continue to notice more and more now how when coming back down from higher jhanas I seem to feel their boundaries as more defined (I can really notice when I go from a higher to a lower jhana). Maybe because I come down thru them faster than on my way up. I also notice how I feel more "repressed" as I'm going down the arc (with the biggest effect felt when coming down from that compounded PL1-look-a-like to 8th and 7th jhana.

...and I know you guys suggested to simply sit on the witness and let things go from there. I think I might have felt a bit impatient during the sitting and wanted to speed up the process. The more I think about it, the more it seems like If it is not PL1 what I am experienced there's a result from compouding lower jhanas, even when there was no manipulation after the 8th one.

"The more I think about it, the more it seems like If it is not PL1 what I am experienced there's a result from compouding lower jhanas, even when there was no manipulation after the 8th one."

um, yeah. I was manipulating my way into a pseudo-PL1 and PL2 this whole time. The main issue was that there was a sort of "I know you are there so I'm going to find you" component rather than a pure "resolve" component.. Something energetically seems to happen that allows for the pure land jhanas to simply manifest. I strongly believe that with really great concentration, one can pick up some of the characteristcs of the PL jhanas (I guess of any other jhana for that matter) from here and there and somehow mentally put the pieces together (hence creating the illusion of actually allowing for the jhana to naturally manifest (kinda like poking holes through the ceiling and taking a look at what's "outside" (the PL jhana), and then we try to put together with our minds what the "outside" should look like or feel like, so we ARE picking at bits and pieces of the real thing, but there is still that energy ceiling keeping us from actually experience the manifestation of the PL jhana. There is a subtle yet obvious difference between experiencing the compounded PL jhana and experiencing it when it "flows" into manifest!
Sweetness!

....I guess I have answered my own question? LOL
Everyone please feel free to comment on my thoughts on accessing jhanas that are energetically "sealed" to a lower pather versus actually being energetically unbound and experiencing a jhana in all its glory!

Thanks!
JF