Let's not know

"I wouldn't refer to it as ignorance. Rather, the wisdom of not knowing. There is a difference, I think."

Right, definitely wisdom.

Are you sure it isn't neither wisdom nor ignorance that is neither empty nor full of knowledge nor is it empty nor full of the absence of knowledge? Or maybe its both wisdom AND ignorance that is neither empty nor full of knowledge nor is it empty nor full of the absence of knowledge? ha ha

"Right, definitely wisdom."

The wisdom of knowing, what knowing is.

"Are you sure it isn't neither wisdom nor ignorance that is neither empty nor full of knowledge nor is it empty nor full of the absence of knowledge? Or maybe its both wisdom AND ignorance that is neither empty nor full of knowledge nor is it empty nor full of the absence of knowledge? ha ha "

Dude, I'm so sure its neither. Haha ^_^

I'm a little unnerved by how quickly everyone jumped in, as though awaiting Kenneth's permission to "not know". I hope this isn't too harsh, but it looks a bit like a bunch of yes-men to me. Kapish?

There's also something kind of funny about a whole bunch of people declaring "I don't know!".....as though any of us has a choice about the matter. We can certainly realize we don't know, and we can certainly feel relieved by Kenneth's thread opening up a space for us to express our realization, but the way we are is the way we are....regardless of whether or not we declare it, realize it, or find a space to express it.

"I'm a little unnerved by how quickly everyone jumped in, as though awaiting Kenneth's permission to "not know". I hope this isn't too harsh, but it looks a bit like a bunch of yes-men to me. Kapish?

There's also something kind of funny about a whole bunch of people declaring "I don't know!".....as though any of us has a choice about the matter. We can certainly realize we don't know, and we can certainly feel relieved by Kenneth's thread opening up a space for us to express our realization, but the way we are is the way we are....regardless of whether or not we declare it, realize it, or find a space to express it.
"

A gentler way to say this would have been:

Let's maintain experience as the gold standard. I'm all for the understanding of "I don't know." And I've had experiences that make this crystal clear. And for me those spontaneous, naturally-occurring, insights of "not-knowing" have been very important and helpful. And I'm not saying that contributers to this thread haven't had those insights.

But honestly, the speed with which everyone jumped in came across as contrived. And it's so easy to proclaim "I don't know," that the statement itself isn't particularly meaningful to me.

crossculturalcouple.files.wordpress.com/...ty-pooper-745697.jpg

I think that it stemmed from the lightning speed introduction of the direct mode many of us seemed to quickly take too when previously we were ranting and raving about the A/F guys talking out their arses, when maybe there was something to the PCE in the first place. We really didn't know and we had planted our flag saying we did. Like Kenneth said in the first post of this thread, we had arrived at a place where we thought of ourselves as highly knowledgable. Well, this may be the case to a degree....but planting a flag too early only becomes a hinderance and a block to any possible future discoveries. Thus the jumping on board of the whole "we don't know" trip.

There is also a thread Kenneth posted which asks " Are you uncomfortable?"....It's good to be uncomfortable. You don't become complacent.

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/42...you+uncomfortable%3F

I hear what Ryan is saying and I think there's some merit to the idea that jumping into anything too early is suspect. The original "only don't know" teacher was Seung Sahn, a fairly famous Korean Zen Master. He wrote a book with that name -- "Only Don't Know" -- which I highly recommend as it helps get a handle on this thing we call "not knowing."

BTW, I think Kenneth is an amazing teacher, too, and I think one of the attributes that makes him so amazing, on top of being willing to experiment and grow and change his own practice, is that Kenneth respects folks who are skeptical and don't just jump because jumping is the thing to do today. Jumping too soon can be as much of a hindrance as jumping too late, or not jumping at all. We all have our own style and pace. "I don't know" accommodates that very well, I think.

I chipped with agreement because I realised what I'd done on a couple of my posts was try and correlate what Kenneth was describing with my own previous expereince when in fact what Kenneth is offering us is simply method and then the examination of results. Just try it.
If I only I try and match what is new with what I already know I destroy my innocence which is perhaps the single biggest help in making progress.

I'm not a joiner and, truth be told, it also unsettled me a little bit with how everybody jumped in so quickly. Although, that being said, I actually think there was a lot of relief in being able to acknowledge our unknowingness.

Maybe after this has all died down, Kenneth should throw something in along the lines of "I'll go first: I'm an a**hole"... and THEN see how many of us quickly clamber on board.

"Maybe after this has all died down, Kenneth should throw something in along the lines of "I'll go first: I'm an a**hole"... and THEN see how many of us quickly clamber on board. "-Dadriance

I think that's a great idea, Dave, especially since my a**holishness is so well documented, but I was a little reluctant to post this for fear that someone would think less of me for agreeing with you too quickly.

Ryan, are you noting "aversion"? ;-D

Great... ;D

You're all nuts because I will so easily win the a**hole sweepstakes it will make your heads spin.

Lemme know if that was too fast

Ha ha Chris, you have serious competition from a serious assh0le. We can one day sit at a round table and tell stories to see who gets the last chocolate brownie. I think I could present a good case for that brownie.

""Maybe after this has all died down, Kenneth should throw something in along the lines of "I'll go first: I'm an a**hole"... and THEN see how many of us quickly clamber on board. "-Dadriance

I think that's a great idea, Dave, especially since my a**holishness is so well documented, but I was a little reluctant to post this for fear that someone would think less of me for agreeing with you too quickly.

Ryan, are you noting "aversion"? ;-D"

LMAO, Dave.

And, yeah, boy, aversion! Touche, Kenneth, touche. : )

"I chipped with agreement because I realised what I'd done on a couple of my posts was try and correlate what Kenneth was describing with my own previous expereince when in fact what Kenneth is offering us is simply method and then the examination of results. Just try it.
If I only I try and match what is new with what I already know I destroy my innocence which is perhaps the single biggest help in making progress."

Word, Richard.