What it means to be "done."

Some time ago (a matter of months), something clicked. Something REALLY clicked. It was clear that something changed by matter of deduction. Something went away. What that something actually is/was has been difficult for me to sort out.

I've heard quite a few people talk about the "end of seeking." When seeking comes to an end, they say, then you're done. But I've had a difficult time with this definition, simply due to the fact that "seeking" can mean so many different things. I can't say that I was ever really seeking something - some THING - outside of myself. That, and my desire to practice, and to go deeper into realization, hasn't been discarded at all. If anything, I am even more engaged in sincere practice. Though, perhaps not as compulsively as before.

I was reflecting on this puzzle on the way to work this morning, and I think I can put it to words for the first time since this change occurred. What was abandoned at that moment was the drive to become something else, something other than I am. And perhaps this came about due to deeply realizing who I am, and that there's no need to change something that is not fundamentally broken.

(continued below)

In all honesty, I don't know all that much about what has happened or what is happening now. What I do know is that I am no longer trying to attain any paths. I'm not looking for another mode of experience, or another perceptual shift that will make me perpetually more happy or more free. But there is still a desire to go deeper into THIS experience, and to understand THIS mind and body. I suppose I believe that there is greater intimacy to be had, and so this has been the direction my practice is heading. I'm wanting to get my hands dirty. I'm wanting to remind myself of who I am through daily practice. I'm wanting to allow the truth to influence my life as a human being, which is none other than an expression of the very truth that is becoming evermore clear.

That's my experience thus far. Is it arahantship? Is it 4th path? I don't know. And I don't know if it matters.

Feedback is welcome.

Practice well, everyone.

Jackson

BTW, the subject of this thread is not worded very well. I don't mean for anyone to think that I'm proposing some new definition of what it means to be "done," and that this should in some way apply to everyone who practices meditation. This has just been my experience, so far. I'm not about to suggest that everyone should jump on board with this.

Is this in response to the whole direct mode fun people seem to be having?

"Is this in response to the whole direct mode fun people seem to be having?" ~Nick

It isn't. I haven't really been paying attention to the direct mode stuff, as I don't feel any interest for it.

I've just been reflecting a lot about how my practice is different now than it was before. I try to share this stuff with you guys as much as possible, for the sake of open communication. It the anti-mushroomer within me

Hey Jackson,
I'm with you on this one. What happened for me on Aug 5 wasn't so much that I found anything, but the need to look beyond my actual experience was finally burned out. Just This was what it had been the entire time. The solution to suffering came from looking at my reality and saying "Yes."

Even now, if somebody asked me what enlightenment means, I wouldn't be able to tell them. But I keep going back to the Heart Sutra and thinking of the line "No attainment indeed there is nothing to be attained." But you have to attain a lot before you get that.

Thank you, Owen. My experience resonates strongly with what you have described here.

" What was abandoned at that moment was the drive to become something else, something other than I am. And perhaps this came about due to deeply realizing who I am, and that there's no need to change something that is not fundamentally broken.

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What do you think the relationship is, if any, between this realization (the attached quote) and the more physical-seeming process of the progress of insight through the paths?

"What do you think the relationship is, if any, between this realization (the attached quote) and the more physical-seeming process of the progress of insight through the paths?" ~telecaster

That's a really good question. I can only speculate and answer.

I know that Kenneth describes the developmental side of awakening as physio-energetic. When this energy (e.g. kundalini, chi, etc.) awakens, it starts the process of clearing up blockages. One may suggest that the blockages are in fact "blocking" one's self (mind and body) from experience. It's sort of ironic, really, as experience is not separate from mind and body. It's like being in deep whatever, trying to push the water away as a means to get out.

Anyway, the blockages represent a kind of resistance, I think. The blockages are cleared up, and resistance is reduced substantially, one can simply settle into their experience without the need for things like higher paths or whatever. There's an OK'ness that arises about being a human being that wasn't really there before.

A hypothesis, no doubt, but a pretty good one. I could just be blowing smoke, after all.

"In all honesty, I don't know all that much about what has happened or what is happening now. What I do know is that I am no longer trying to attain any paths. I'm not looking for another mode of experience, or another perceptual shift that will make me perpetually more happy or more free. But there is still a desire to go deeper into THIS experience, and to understand THIS mind and body"

Thanks for this statement. I've only been around for a short time but this expresses how I feel very well. I've been asked where I am on the map/path and I don't know or really care. I'm certainly trying to progress, but not to get away from what is happening to me now. I'm very content with life right now, and only want to get closer to this moment. This is unusual for me, I'm a little competitve so I would normally eat up all these different levels and attainments and fruitions. But for some reason I'm just not into it in that way.
You expressed it better, and I just wanted to say Thanks for putting my feelings into words.

""In all honesty, I don't know all that much about what has happened or what is happening now. What I do know is that I am no longer trying to attain any paths. I'm not looking for another mode of experience, or another perceptual shift that will make me perpetually more happy or more free. But there is still a desire to go deeper into THIS experience, and to understand THIS mind and body"

Thanks for this statement. I've only been around for a short time but this expresses how I feel very well. I've been asked where I am on the map/path and I don't know or really care. I'm certainly trying to progress, but not to get away from what is happening to me now. I'm very content with life right now, and only want to get closer to this moment. This is unusual for me, I'm a little competitve so I would normally eat up all these different levels and attainments and fruitions. But for some reason I'm just not into it in that way.
You expressed it better, and I just wanted to say Thanks for putting my feelings into words."

THAT doesn't sound like "insight disease."

Whats insight disease??

It's a near compulsive drive to complete the process of enlightenment. You get it when you first cross the A&P event.

"Whats insight disease??"

Being really into the maps and where you are on them, relentlessly trying to attain paths and insights, hoping to attain perceptual shifts, great desire for frution, and an inability to rest until these things happen.
What Jackson is talking about is what it might look like once one is cured of the disease. Believe me, he had it once.
And you, if you are interested in this web site and forum you most likely have it but are in a temporary state of denial.

Gotcha, thanks.

The way I described the "thing" that happened to me was that I finally got out of my own way. I guess we all describe this in relation to the loss of some element of the sense of self and the end of some form of seeking.

"... I finally got out of my own way." ~Chris

That's a great way to say it.

For myself I was/am quite surprised by what it was/is like:
wholeness
a profound satisfaction
a beautiful absence

if I want to be clever about it:
enlightenment solves all the problems that cannot be solved through living your life
- what I mean by this is some fundamental yearning is satisfied - a spiritual yearning - not a yearning to be free from pain, or be always happy, or wise, or always know what to do - these have to be dropped, but something deeper a question that was always there, to KNOW..

For me, the interesting part is that I can't remember what the hell the question was in the first place.

YES!

"YES!"

Exactly: that's the answer to the 'question' of duality.

I think we all have assumptions about practice, awakening, and enlightenment that change as we go along.
One of mine has been, I think, that insight (meaning really knowing the 3 C's) will create a change in one's daily life -- in other words:
-put one in a better overall mood most of the time

-eliminate fundamental suffering,

-possibly take away the fear of death,

-create a sort of automatic mindfulness in which one always sees things more clearly,

-provide a huge sense of perspective on ones self and the world of people and experiences so much so that one avoids a lot of suffering, mistakes, bull sh it.

that sort of thing.

Now .... I still think all those things and more are possible with devepmental insight, but how much each person gets of those things will depend on what they were like to start with and the way they continue to practice and live in the world.

One person might get fourth path and get all those things.

One person might get fourth path and need to really work hard everyday to have those things.
And then there is everyone in between.

I suspect that my progress to this point has fundamentally reduced my fear, anxiety, suffering and overall average mood. I believe I know people for whom that is NOT true.

I also suspect that if I stopped practicing and growing that I'd lose some of these benefits over time.