Length of time within a fruition

Was reading The Progress of Insight Today when I noticed this bit for the first time:

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18. Attainment of Fruition
While he is thus engaged in noticing, his insight knowledge will gradually grow, and soon will again reach the stage of equanimity about formations. If his power of concentration is still short of perfection, only the equanimity about formations will go on repeating itself. But if his concentration has reached perfection, then, in the case of one who does the insight practice of noticing with a view of attaining only to the first path and fruition, the fruition consciousness of the first path alone reaches cessation of formations by way of the attainment of fruition.[46] This occurs in precisely the same way as the path and fruition consciousness that occurred earlier in the consciousness-sequence belonging to the initial attainment of the first path. The only difference here is the capacity of the fruition attainment to last long.

One should also set one's mind resolutely upon the further tasks: to be able to repeat the achievement of fruition attainment, to achieve it rapidly, and, at the time of achievement, to abide in it a long time, say for six, ten, fifteen or thirty minutes, or for an hour or more.

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So it would seem to imply that one can remain in a fruition for an extended period of time. Anybody know if he is talking about NS (as I would imagine) or the other three types? Has anybody been able to remain in, say a dukkha cessation for more than a few seconds? Reading this has gotten me curious.

I haven't\, but I remember there is a section on this in the Mahasi Sayadaw manual.
Part of what I remember is that one can resolve to stay in a frution for a certain length of time.
Try it.
Kenneth's old letter to Daniel Ingram goes over it as well.

Kenneth, Nikolai and me have had some pretty extensive conversations about this topic right here in the forum. I don't remember which thread. It might be in Part Two of my practice journals. I'll see if I can find it...

I asked about this way back, Owen but Im still after some more info too.

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/36...here+a+difference%3F

Found it...

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/38...et=100&maxResults=20

Starting at comment 115.

Thanks for chiming in with another thread link, Nick.

Can you guys stay in NS for long periods, 10 minutes, an hour, or so?

Lovely, thanks guys. I'm feeling the urge to get back into some 1st gear practice.
I'm starting to think that being able to dwell in extended cessations or NS is a nice gold standard for concentration. Every time I've practiced this way for a while my mind feels much cleaner. Anyway, it beats watching television.

"Can you guys stay in NS for long periods, 10 minutes, an hour, or so?"

About 45 seconds in NS is my record... I think. Though it would be super hard to tell for sure without an EEG and friend with a stopwatch. It took a few trips through the arc to charge up the concentration beforehand.

So that's quite interesting, since it is also mentioned in the Visudhimagga that one could stay in it for longer periods.
On the other hand, besides being an interesting phenomena, what would be the point of such a long cessation? sleep-alternative or as a way to refresh the mind?

I just got a copy of the Vimutimagga and here's the section on it (page 324: "The Dissolution of Perception and Sensation"):
"Why is it developed? For the sake of happiness in the present. This is the Noble Individual's last immovable concentration. And again, for the sake of supernormal magical power, one enters the whole range of concentration like the arahant Sanjiva. It is (entered also) for the sake of protecting the body as in the case of the Ven. Elder Sariputta and in the case of the Venerable Elder Tissa, the son of the Snowy Heron."

A bit cryptic

"So that's quite interesting, since it is also mentioned in the Visudhimagga that one could stay in it for longer periods.
On the other hand, besides being an interesting phenomena, what would be the point of such a long cessation? sleep-alternative or as a way to refresh the mind?

I just got a copy of the Vimutimagga and here's the section on it (page 324: "The Dissolution of Perception and Sensation"):
"Why is it developed? For the sake of happiness in the present. This is the Noble Individual's last immovable concentration. And again, for the sake of supernormal magical power, one enters the whole range of concentration like the arahant Sanjiva. It is (entered also) for the sake of protecting the body as in the case of the Ven. Elder Sariputta and in the case of the Venerable Elder Tissa, the son of the Snowy Heron."

A bit cryptic "

Short answer, it feels really good.
According to the sutras, you can develop it to the point where you could stay there for 24 hours or more... it would be interesting to see that. To be honest, this is a post 4th path side show. Maybe it's the sysadmin in me, but I like the idea of rebooting myself.

What did you do this weekend? I dipped into NS for about 30 hours, I feel refreshed and I saved money on groceries. I would love to be able to pull something like that off, it's gonna have to be absurd concentration levels that bring you to that point Hm....

"What did you do this weekend? I dipped into NS for about 30 hours, I feel refreshed and I saved money on groceries. I would love to be able to pull something like that off, it's gonna have to be absurd concentration levels that bring you to that point Hm.... "

Hahaha! Saving money would be a great idea. Can I make it so that 100 bucks lasts 1 month? 48 hour NS sits might help.

I'm going to make a totally paranoid statement... but I actually worry about the health of people who lock into a concentration state for a long time. I don't think anyone knew about clotting and strokes until recently. I figure that if trans-continenal flights are trouble, then a thrity six hour sit can't be good.

(Am I being totally paranoid?)

"I'm going to make a totally paranoid statement... but I actually worry about the health of people who lock into a concentration state for a long time. I don't think anyone knew about clotting and strokes until recently. I figure that if trans-continenal flights are trouble, then a thrity six hour sit can't be good.

(Am I being totally paranoid?)"

Good point, betawave. Long sits like that are usually done cross-legged on the floor. I wouldn't try it sitting in a chair for the reasons you mention; one pulmonary embolism can ruin your whole day.

Reclining is also a relatively safe posture if you intend to stay immobile for long periods. Just watch out for bed sores!

Interesting! Can anybody explain the physiology of the preferred positions? What is it that is not good about chair sitting that is fixed by the cross-leg position?

As far as I know, it has to do with blood pooling and then clotting in the legs and feet while sitting immobile for a long time in a chair, as on an airplane. I believe this is less likely to happen while sitting cross-legged, but I'm no expert on blood clots, so hopefully a doctor will chime in.

"As far as I know, it has to do with blood pooling and then clotting in the legs and feet while sitting immobile for a long time in a chair, as on an airplane. I believe this is less likely to happen while sitting cross-legged, but I'm no expert on blood clots, so hopefully a doctor will chime in."

*Ahem* Calling Dr. Ingram...