Sleep issues and waking up in jhana

Hi folks! This is my first post here after lurking for a while, and I'm trying to see if anyone has run into this before:

I've been meditating daily on a regularly basis for about a year, after not having done it for a long time, and as best as I can tell, I'm post A&P, and seem to be working my way through Dark Night, and possibly have gotten a taste of Equanimity.

I've been having trouble sleeping for a number of months. I go to sleep without any issues, but later wake up time after time. Sometimes it feels like I never really get into deep sleep. I need to be in bed 9-10 hours to feel like I'm rested. After looking at various things like caffeine intake, alcohol/water consumption, possible depression, apnea, medications, temperature, sound levels, etc., I find that nothing really seems to account for this.

I'm wondering if it might have something to do with passing through Dark Night. Has anyone ever had sleep issues related to progressing on the path?

Also, this morning I drifted in and out of sleep in a sort of partially aware state for a few hours, and when the alarm finally went off, I found to my surprise that I was actually in what seemed to be second jhana.

So, I'm wondering if I'm managing somehow to enter meditative states while asleep, and if so, maybe this accounts for some of the sleep disturbances?

Any comments on this?

Andymr,

First of all, welcome to KFD!

It may hard to assess whether you are post A&P and are going through a dark night on your own. My advice is that you go and set up a meeting with Kenneth so he can better assess your current stage/state and provide you with some guidance as to how to go about moving through successfully. If you are indeed going through a dark night many of its "side effects" may have a detrimental effect on many, if not all aspects of your daily life. With that said, there may be other issues independent of your actual insight stage that may be affecting your sleep. Talking to a specialist may be a good idea.
In my experience, a lot of interesting things can happen while meditating and going in and out of sleep. I would imagine it is possible that you can be in a given jhana after waking up or right before falling asleep (particularly if you have fallen asleep while meditating). what is your experience when you are in this jhanic states? go ahead and describe to the best of your ability what your experience is. There are many yogis here at KFD that may have gone through similar experiences and may have some really interesting things to say about it.
Are you practicing samatha? or vipassana? are you trying to get absorbed into deep concentration states? are you practicing noting? in my experience, it's not uncommon to continue noting long after you have fallen asleep, specially once strong equanimity is reached (I actually experienced the fruition of 2nd path while sleeping). Again, by giving detailed descriptions of your experiences you will make it a lot easier for us yogis here to give you valuable input!

Can't wait to hear the details of your practice!!

with metta,
Jorge Freddy

"First of all, welcome to KFD! "

Thanks, much appreciated, Jorge.

"It may hard to assess whether you are post A&P and are going through a dark night on your own. My advice is that you go and set up a meeting with Kenneth so he can better assess your current stage/state and provide you with some guidance as to how to go about moving through successfully.

Thanks, I'll consider doing that.

"If you are indeed going through a dark night many of its "side effects" may have a detrimental effect on many, if not all aspects of your daily life. With that said, there may be other issues independent of your actual insight stage that may be affecting your sleep. Talking to a specialist may be a good idea."

I started working with my doctor today and we'll see what happens.

"First of all, welcome to KFD! "

Thanks, much appreciated, Jorge.

"It may hard to assess whether you are post A&P and are going through a dark night on your own. My advice is that you go and set up a meeting with Kenneth so he can better assess your current stage/state and provide you with some guidance as to how to go about moving through successfully.

Thanks, I'll consider doing that.

"If you are indeed going through a dark night many of its "side effects" may have a detrimental effect on many, if not all aspects of your daily life. With that said, there may be other issues independent of your actual insight stage that may be affecting your sleep. Talking to a specialist may be a good idea."

I started working with my doctor today and we'll see what happens.

Continued...

"what is your experience when you are in this jhanic states? go ahead and describe to the best of your ability what your experience is."
"Are you practicing samatha? or vipassana? are you trying to get absorbed into deep concentration states? are you practicing noting?"

I've never attended a retreat, and have only worked on my own. That said, I've done a lot of reading over the last six months, including this forum, Dharmo Overground, Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha, assorted Mahasi Sayadaw, Ian And on jhana. I've listened to a lot of podcasts, including Buddhist Geeks.

I practice both samatha and vipassana, although I've moved to a much more vipassana-heavy approach.


What my practice looks like today:

A typical weekday sit:
I) I set an intention or plan for the sit. It might go as follows: I resolve to sit for 40 minutes and note continuously, or I resolve to explore and note the sensations that imply space around me, or simply I resolve to work on concentration for the duration of this sit.
2) I establish some mindfulness, typically by breath counting. Then, I move to simply following my breath.
3) Once concentrated, I move to noting. I note in a simplified Shinzen Young style, paying attention to Touch Sight Sound Feel Image Talk.

I also take advantage of a hour of driving a day to practice mindfulness and noting, and often take advantage of a spare 5 or 10 minutes to do a quick sit.

I often drift off-track while noting, and find myself either lost in thought, or back in breath counting. To help with this, I've very recently started working on raw concentration practice with kasinas, watching the second hand of a clock, and playing with narrowing and widening the focus of my attention. This seems to help get me concentrated very fast and seems to help me stay with noting a bit better.

Continued...

On Saturday and Sunday, I'll meditate immediately on waking, for sometimes as long as two hours. It only takes me a minute or two to get deeply concentrated and to get a large amount of body bliss and tingling going.


What happens while I'm sitting


I usually feel the temptation to move to relieve some stress, or adjust my body position. I then often get itches/tickles which I note and go back to what I was doing. If the itch is particularly strong, I'll note until it opens up, blooms, expands. I've been assuming this is the passage through Cause and Effect

At some point, I'll start to feel some excitement, body bliss, tingling, body lightness, and some shifts/vertigo and sometimes I momentarily lose my place in my counting. My attention seems to start out in a tight internally-centered focus, and body touch sensations and sounds drop away to a certain extent. Often, I'll suddenly notice moving shifting imagery/patterns, sometimes detailed, sometimes simply moving areas of dark and light. This imagery seems to pass eventually, as I pass though what I assume is A&P.

The body bliss will calm down somewhat and my attention will eventually change to a wider-open focus where I hear outside noises, traffic, wind, and coolness on my skin. (Possible Dissolution)

I do not sense anything that might lead me to believe that I yet pass through Dark Night while sitting. I'm open to thinking that I've been cycling through A&P and Dark Night ever since my grade-school days. I've also had a number of years of analysis, and have gotten some measure of peace and acceptance of depression, anger and other "stuff" that comes up for me. I'm not sure if Dark Night will manifest the same way for me in my sittings as I've read it does for others.

Today, during a 55 minute session, I noticed myself both calm, and getting bored with the sensations of body bliss, excitement, tingling, and have noticed myself wanting to "move on" and for things to be different. I noted this when it came up.


I'd appreciate any comments on the above.

Thanks.

Hi andymr,

Your practice seems to be doing quite well! from reading some of your descriptions, you seem to be going through the first nanas during your sittings (and you are noticing it). Based on some of the things you are experiences I believe you may be right about having the dark night as the cutting edge of your practice. Dark nights have the ability to make most yogis feel like their practice is going nowhere or even backwards. On the contrary, great progress is being made as long as you continue to note everything that arises. It is very common to let out a bit and slack off and stay stuck in a dark night, so use all your effort and diligence to get some momentum going and make it past it. Become a "noting freak" (it sounds like you may be starting to and try to note as much as you can, for as long as you can. Often, there is a slight sense of equanimity manifesting after going through the stage of desire for deliverance (that wanting to "move on"), right before moving towards re-observation. Remember that re-observation feels like you have fallen back again into the stages of fear, misery and disgust, but it is then when you got to push the pedal to the metal until you reach a natural state of equanimity.

So in short, keep on noting as much as possible. Keep the momentum going and stay determined to "note your way out" of the dark night. You'll be reaching equanimity very shortly! Like Kenneth says: "this is the door, to the door, to the door"
Keep us posted!!

JF