Please help diagnose which stage I am in!

I would like to describe what happens when I sit and see if people can help and diagnose what stage I am in.

During my last meditation retreat this was a very usual sit for me: I close my eyes and immediately feel strong pressure in my face. I note pressure. I usually note excitement/peace as a feeling tone (had I been noting earlier in my practice, say 6 months to a year ago, I would've noted a lot of aversion for the pain and doubt that I was meditating properly) as I am so happy to be with sensation. I begin to scan the body and have very recurring gross senstions: burning in the heart, knife stabbing in the back, throbbing in the knees, and fire in the ankles. I can also pan out a bit and feel the heartbeat explode over the body (I can always feel the heartbeat everywhere in the body) and also feel a subtle buzzing all over the body--with my more focused sits this buzzing is more prevalent--that I interpet as the body vibrating like crazy. it feels like i'm just one humming vibration. for all of these sensations I felt an incredible equanimity this last course...I sat consistently 1 1/2-2 hour sits throughout the day, I was sitting during break periods and before and after hours (on a goenka course that asks meditators to sit 12+ hours a day) and I wanted to do nothing but sit. Nothing felt like pain anymore, just sensations.

This is starkly different than just a few weeks ago, when this pain in my heart/chest felt like an alien wanted to rip out of my chest and I would physically collapse during meditation periods of only 45 minutes, and I wanted to give up meditation, I got myself a girlfriend and started considering therapy, paranoid, stopped talking to my mom, planned on leaving the meditation center (where I lived for the past year and a half sitting and serving continuously...siting 9, 10 day courses in that time. Now my fantasy is sitting a 3 month course and getting enlightened. I can't stop thinking about it! So?

Hi Chris,

Everything you are describing is consistent with the 4th nana, Knowledge of the Arising and Passing Away of Phenomena, including the difficult stage (3rd nana) that preceded it. There is a certain amount of equanimity at this stage, but not to be confused with the equanimity that comes along with the 11th nana, Knowledge of Equanimity. The buzzing vibrations, euphoric mind states, excitement and changes in overall happiness all point to the A&P. If this is indeed the A&P, congratulations! This is arguably the most important development in a yogi's life, as it opens the door for all the rest.

Mudita,

Kenneth

Beat me to it!

"Case Study # 1:

Report: 'My meditation used to be good, but now there's nothing but solid pain when I sit. I sometimes feel nauseous and I want to leave the retreat."

Diagnosis: 3rd ñana, Knowledge of the Three Characteristics.

'But I also have all kinds of cool insights about this and that.'

Doesn't matter. If you have persistent solid pain, you're in the 3rd ñana.



Case Study # 2:

Report: 'I had this incredible energy coursing through my body, tingled all over, saw white lights, and had unitive experiences.'

Diagnosis: 4th ñana, Knowledge of the Arising and Passing Away of Phenomena.

'But I had it while on drugs (or in a dream). I never even meditated.'

Doesn't matter. 4th ñana. Have a nice day.

'But it was so real. I saw God. I know it was enlightenment.'

No, it was the 4th ñana."
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/The+...+to+Dharma+Diagnosis

"Hi Chris,

Everything you are describing is consistent with the 4th nana, Knowledge of the Arising and Passing Away of Phenomena, including the difficult stage (3rd nana) that preceded it. There is a certain amount of equanimity at this stage, but not to be confused with the equanimity that comes along with the 11th nana, Knowledge of Equanimity. The buzzing vibrations, euphoric mind states, excitement and changes in overall happiness all point to the A&P. If this is indeed the A&P, congratulations! This is arguably the most important development in a yogi's life, as it opens the door for all the rest.

Mudita,

Kenneth"

Kenneth,

Is there any possibility it is something other than A&P or equanimity? Or it's definitely one of those two and your assessment is it's a&p?

-Chris

Hey Chris,

I, like you, lived and sat for a long time in a Goenka centre. Are you noting or only sweeping? I ask, because many yogis in that tradition have probelms mixing techniques etc. and wish to just practice sweeping. I recommend as does Kenneth the noting technique as it seems to be much more effective in getting a yogi to disembed from phenomena all the way to stream entry aand beyond.

If you are open to noting, you are in the right place. If you are not I have some advice here for my Goenka yogi friends without them having to mix techniques. I am still biased towards the noting technique however.

thehamiltonproject.blogspot.com/2010/11/...n-goenka-10-day.html

I would concur with Kenneth. Sounds like 3rd nana then 4th. I had very very similar experinces when i lived at the vipassana centre. Your experiences seem quite dramatic. And the A&P is quite dramatic. The 11th nana is not so dramatic and a yogi can get quite bored at the 11th if not maintaining a momentum. The theme of the 11th is quite "Meh!" or a very mundane "Okness" with all the phenomena arising and passing away. Not dramatic at all.

Welome to KFD!



Nick

Thank you guys for putting it so gently (framing it as an achievement). Obviously I would rather be in equanimity than a+p as that's closer to my goal of "blip". I guess the question now is, is dark night usually more trying/taxing/scary than 3rd nana? Anything I should do to prepare for this?

Thanks so much for the support!

"Thank you guys for putting it so gently (framing it as an achievement). Obviously I would rather be in equanimity than a+p as that's closer to my goal of "blip". I guess the question now is, is dark night usually more trying/taxing/scary than 3rd nana? Anything I should do to prepare for this?

Thanks so much for the support!"

Who is to say, Chris, that you can't make fast progress through the dukkha nanas onto equanimity?

If you apply yourself, become aware of what they may entail, maintain a momentum in your practice, up your concentration skills, then you may well make your way to your goal much much quicker than you think.

But also be aware that the dukkha nanas can be a beatch. Then again, if you are equanimous and aware enough and note your arse off, they don't have to be such a beatch. But gotta warn ya, the dukkha nanas in my experience were worse then the 3rd nana. But that is my experience. It can vary from yogi to yogi.

You're in a good position because you'll know what it is when it hits. A lot of folks are taken off guard by it.

It isn't solid pain like 3rd nana, but there seems to be some intense emotional stuff for most people.
Don't be afraid, it'll be just every day routine stuff for you eventually.

Also, it takes a lot of persistence to get through third nana into A&P, after that it's a bit more of a ride.

Hi Chris, and Welcome!
I just went through the same thing as you, I thought I was in 11th nana but really 4th. A blow to the ego, sure, but still a big step in the right direction. Also a lot of anxiety about the dark night, just need to stay aware and apply the teachings.A lot of great advice here listen, learn, and practice like a madman. Good Luck.

Hey Chris,

Regardless of whether it is the 4th or 11th nana, it doesnt really matter. None of it is "you" and the instructions are the same. Keep on keeping on. If you hang around, why not start a daily sitting journal. In it you can record your sits, and post the phenomenolgical descriptions of them so that Kenneth and other yogis here can see patterns and give advice and support on your way to 1st path. There is nothing like having the support of yogis who are of the same mindset. Stream Entry or bust, then 4th path or bust! Yogis have made extremely fast progress , due to, what i speculate to be, this sangha and the support and enthusiasm people show for eachother..

Hopefully, you will feel inclined to take advantage.



Nick

I've been there too guys. Just remember, it's happening because you are doing it right. Just keep doing it and you will get enlightened.