What is this (PCE Related?)

Ok so I recently think I got second path, after a very subtle and unexpected fruition a week ago, and had a very nice afterglow, am able to incline the mind into the first 4 jhanas, Im not sure about the formless yet, I think i have dipped into the first 2 arupa jhanas and just didnt recognize it, or it was too soft.

I havent really been cycling alot, and I am not sure if I am able to have a fruition through intention alone. I have gone through 2 cycles since then (I tried to stay in the afterglow of this last big fruition for as long as possible, plus my friends came here for 4 days so I didnt have time to meditate). I got into a nasty dark night of the recent cycle last night, was in it all night (had nightmares) and was in it this morning, I sat to meditate and resolved to get a fruition and got to equanimity in 20 minutes and then had another subtle fruition followed by a really open spacious mind.

I decided to go running after the fruition, and enjoy the outdoors. My vision is very "psychedelic" and real, best way I can describe it... and I feel this kind of state of AWE when I just look around at all the beauty. Now, here is my question. I feel pretty intense sensations, which are hard to explain when I start looking at nature and kind of feel pulled into that state of AWE and wonder.

Im wondering if this is related to a PCE (Actual Freedom Technique)? When I start walking, I kind of lose the center of "I", and feel very spacious and open... I sometimes feel a rushing AWE sensation, very similar to some raptures ive experienced in Arising and Passing. Colors become more brilliant, my mind becomes more still than it already is, and I feel my mind kind of expanding. This is all from just walking through nature and enjoying the scenery.

Any answers are appreciiated, Im super curious about PCE's now and the overall Actual Freedom Technique, using it alongside Vipassana.

hmm ok I was digging around and I found a page on the Actual Freedom website that seems to describe what I experienced :

www.actualfreedom.com.au/library/topics/excellence.htm

So according to that there is a sort of gradual build up before entering a PCE, and that being happy and harmless perpetuates the Excellent Experience (EE)... which is what one would experience prior to a full blown PCE.

Im really intrigued by all of this and how it relates to Vipassana, and whether I should concentrate fully on Vipassana, or should I incorporate and play around with AF and PCE.

Life is Exciting when you arent Dark Nighting, and even the Dark Night periods are somewhat exciting once you "acquire a taste" for them like Daniel Ingram stated in his book.

Hi Roboto,

Can you set it up for us more thoroughly? I like to discourage people from making outright claims of attainment; better if you tell us what happened and let others tell *you* that you got 2nd Path, if you see what I mean. That keeps everyone on the same page and we all hold each other accountable. It may well be that you have the attainment you think you have, but we have no way of knowing that unless you carefully document your experiences for us, using bare phenomenological reporting, without speculation. First, convince us that you have 1st Path. Words like fruition, Path, dark night, and jhanas may mean something completely different to you than what they mean in the consensus we've formed here. So bring us up to speed slowly, little by little. Build up a mountain of evidence by documenting your experience and we will tell you where we think you are.

As for the PCE, that's not a term we use much around here. It's pretty much a proprietary term of Actualism, which isn't the lens we generally peer through. As you know, the DhO is a good place to learn about Actualism. Your experience, itself, though is real by whatever name you call it. So, what is it? Not sure yet. Tell us more. Set it up more, put it all in context and in sequence, and let's see what we can say about it. Meanwhile, enjoy it. There are a million and one amazing experiences to be had while doing this practice. Ultimately, you are working toward freedom from suffering, so enjoy the experiences but keep them all within the larger context. You know your practice is paying off when you are happier, kinder, lighter, wiser. All of those are reasonable expectations if you keep practicing with the enthusiasm you are showing here. Keep on keepin' on!

Edit: Here's a link to a great example of concise, no-nonsense reporting:

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/40...+notes?maxResults=20

I keep doing this...I dont mean to claim anything...just excited :0... I am updating my journal thread right now with a more thorough explanation of what is going on in my practice, and ill edit these posts with necessary changes after.

Sounds great, Roboto. Also, link back to your practice thread from here for easy reference.

here is my practice thread: it is a more in depth description of my practice over the last couple weeks :

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/43...ce+Journal?offset=20

I tried not to speculate anything, just referenced on 2 occasions what I think were jhanas... Just a general sense of confusion with where im at, but also enjoying life, and not worrying too much with where Im at with practice.

" I decided to go running .. and enjoy the outdoors. My vision is very "psychedelic" and real, best way I can describe it... and I feel this kind of state of AWE when I just look around at all the beauty. ..Im wondering if this is related to a PCE (Actual Freedom Technique)? "

Hi Roboto,
I am quite familiar with what you are describing. This is a common experience with expansive practices which AF makes use of. Life is a mix of expansive and contractive states. Changing conditions determine which type of experience we have but as we are to some extent capable of changing our conditions, we can also cultivate expansive or contractive states. Contractive is easiest - just start worrying about something. Mild expansive states are common - anything you do which takes the mind out of its own world will do it. There is a general sense of well being and an open spacious feeling. Physical exercise is a good technique.

The further you go into the expansive state, the more psychedelic it can be. In fact, the world can appear something like it does with a mild dose of lsd. This is no secret that AF discovered. If you look through Mahayana or Vajrayana texts you will find references to it.

You cannot always control what kind of state conditions are going to give rise to. This is why Kenneth says "Ultimately, you are working toward freedom from suffering" - because freedom from suffering is about freedom from any state - Life is unpredictable. Btw, Richard (of AF) also experiences contractive states in spite of trying not to. He has essentially lived a life of a recluse out in the boonies (setting those conditions) yet when he has to interact with people he does not always come off as a happy carefree person (that is the contractive state coming through). Like Richard, I also awoke through the expansive states. In the end, you have to integrate both. So enjoy them but don't cling to them.

-Chuck

"Hi Roboto,
I am quite familiar with what you are describing. This is a common experience with expansive practices which AF makes use of. Life is a mix of expansive and contractive states. Changing conditions determine which type of experience we have but as we are to some extent capable of changing our conditions, we can also cultivate expansive or contractive states. Contractive is easiest - just start worrying about something. Mild expansive states are common - anything you do which takes the mind out of its own world will do it. There is a general sense of well being and an open spacious feeling. Physical exercise is a good technique.

The further you go into the expansive state, the more psychedelic it can be. In fact, the world can appear something like it does with a mild dose of lsd. This is no secret that AF discovered. If you look through Mahayana or Vajrayana texts you will find references to it.

You cannot always control what kind of state conditions are going to give rise to. This is why Kenneth says "Ultimately, you are working toward freedom from suffering" - because freedom from suffering is about freedom from any state - Life is unpredictable. Btw, Richard (of AF) also experiences contractive states in spite of trying not to. He has essentially lived a life of a recluse out in the boonies (setting those conditions) yet when he has to interact with people he does not always come off as a happy carefree person (that is the contractive state coming through). Like Richard, I also awoke through the expansive states. In the end, you have to integrate both. So enjoy them but don't cling to them.

-Chuck"

At the end of the post is a little bit of text that says "Do you find this valuable?" And I said to myself, "Yes. Yes I do."

Thanks, Chuck.

Thanks Kenneth,
I am going to be posting quite a bit more material related to this on my Mahasi and Chah thread. I don't imagine hardcore AF folks will agree with me. I don't have any argument with much of what Richard (AF) is saying. In fact, I was trying to make some of the same points on DhO long before AF even came up. The reason I am doing this now is that there is so much confusion around this issue - largely created by people (such as Richard) that practiced outside of any tradition and simply made assumptions about their experience - but also due to the general lack of open discussion about these things that has been the norm.

I feel that now, with the introduction of what you call direct mode, there is a bridge of sorts - at least for this site - between our two paths that could lead to some interesting explorations.

-Chuck

Looking forward to it, Chuck!