Dreamrabbit's practice notes

Hello, all. Great community, and thanks to Kenneth for helping us along.

I started meditating a little over a week ago, at first on the breath, but I started doing noting practice soon after I found this site and the DhO. Things progressed quite rapidly, and I'm a little bewildered and trying to get a good grasp on things right now.

To the best of my knowledge, I had an A&P experience about ten years ago when I was trying out astral projection. Sitting down a week or so ago, I had an experience similar to that but less extreme - vibrations over my whole body and a coolness and luminosity in my mind. I stayed with that experience for the rest of that session.

I went into the next session fairly sure that I had crossed the A&P and would have to deal with the Dark Night, so I went in with strong resolve to get as far as I could through it. I used noting practice. After 20 minutes or so, I felt my mind 'slip' into a state of concentratedness I recognized from the A&P. The sensations of vibration, coolness, and luminosity were present but even more muted than before.

Pressing on, I focused on the phenomena apparent to me, and soon enough, my mind 'slipped' again. There were new sensations, a broader focal sense. I pressed on. The mind 'slipped' again, and there was an even broader focus. There may have been another 'slip' in between -- I can't remember -- but I soon came to a state where it felt like I was wearing a tight beanie of luminosity or consciousness over the whole of my head, and it was very peaceful and blissful. (My guess is this was equanimity) I pressed on past a few more mind slips, and I got to a state of clearness all around -- like a cold winter day, and I just felt done, so I ended it there.

(continued)

I think either then or the next day I got stream entry.

I was trying to make sense of all the sensations I had, so I decided to meditate through the jhanas along with the guys at the Hamilton Project (awesome stuff, guys). I was able to follow along with those guys around until equanimity, I think. After a while it seemed like my states weren't matching up to their's, and I'm not sure if it was because we got out of synch, or if it was because I was going through some of the 1 time only states.

I don't particularly recall going blank for any time conscious-wise, but I remember one state where it felt like a wave went over my mind sort of cleansing it and driving out all other sensations for 3-4 seconds.

From that time onward, I have felt myself cycling through these states in times of relaxation or focus, and I am already among them when I sit down to meditation -- no need to focus or call them up. I also have the vague sensation that something has sort of fallen away in the back of my mind. My guess is that it is the faculty of mind that drives anxiety, compulsion, or obsessive thought. I can still feel anxious, but the weight or force behind it is gone. It sort of feels like there is no root for them to take hold anymore. Time will tell if that holds.

Right now, I sort of feel lost in the jhanas. When I sit to meditate, I don't know which I am starting from, and they all feel relatively peaceful, but some more so than others. The main differences are senses of pressure and wideness to them. Part of the problem is that the Dark Night was almost completely insignificant. I got no rememberable bodily sensations or emotive sensations. I think I once felt Disgust cycling during the day, but I can't yet connect that to my meditative experiences.

In my most recent sit, I decided to keep pushing and see where I end up, and this has also contributed to my sense of feeling lost. It seemed like I pushed into new mental states every few minutes, but few of them felt 'complete' or completely new. Many of them felt like subtle warpings of previous states. No new blisses. I will try to describe two of the states that felt substantial. The first one that came up was just a large mental weight, a rather insistent pressure on the top 2/3 3/4 of my mind. Not quite oppressive, but it felt like it had the potential to be so. It seemed brown, as well. The second substantial state was more vibratory, and as best as I can say was like a black disk centered on the back of my head and extending down my back. Also, when I note vibrations in the 'higher' states, it seems to be the sense of focus vibrating instead of anything bodily.

Questions I have:
1) It seems like it would be beneficial to know the different jhanic states better and by name. Is that really important? Is there a good way to sort through the muddle?
2) Are there lots of non-mapped states after stream entry? That's what it feels like. And if so, how does one sort them from the mapped states? Or, again, is it really that important?
3) Is there a way to make the states really pleasurable again? They intensify with concentration, but they seem to have lost their real flavor.

-John

"I think either then or the next day I got stream entry.

"

Hi Dream rabbit,

Welcome to KFD!!!!

First up, we don't know if what you experienced was stream entry so let's back up and start again. You could be unwittingly scripting.

Start describing your sits in this thread without ANY speculation as to what nana or jhana you have accessed. And when we see soemthing we can relate to then someone, preferably Kenneth, can make a diagnosis for you. Best not to claim anything yet, ok? This is in order that we don't then get a rash of every Tom, Dick and Harry claiming this and that. Most yogis here have shown their progress over a certain period of time with detailed phenomenological descriptions of their practice. It is in order to maintain some sort of integrity in this place...concerning the controversy of claims to enlightenment that exists in the world.

Let's see how your practice plays out. Remember, purely phenomenological descriptions only. See other yogis' practice notes threads for an idea on what to do. Nadav's in particular.

NO SPECULATION!!! That's other people's jobs.


Looking forward to reading about your practice in the utmost phenomenological detail you can muster!

metta and mudita,



Nick

Point taken. Feeling a little overwhelmed and trying to place myself on the map to help make sense of it.

And thanks for the welcome.

Welcome. This---"Is there a way to make the states really pleasurable again? They intensify with concentration, but they seem to have lost their real flavor." Doesn't really seem consistent with Stream Entry. Honestly sounds more like the beginning of a Dark Night

"I don't particularly recall going blank for any time conscious-wise, but I remember one state where it felt like a wave went over my mind sort of cleansing it and driving out all other sensations for 3-4 seconds."

This doesn't really sound quit like it either. But we are happy you are here and posting. Keep sharing--I know its difficult but try to just keep it bases in sensations rather than interpretations...

Clayton

Cool. Good to get feedback, even if it's sobering. It wouldn't surprise me if I jumped the gun considerably. I should also clarify that by and large, the states are not unpleasant -- often very nice -- just not very often blissful.

I sat just a bit ago and tried to pay attention solely to sensations.

As I sit down, there is a pressure in the crown of my head and maybe some small sensation in my cheeks and jaws. After a bit, the energy seems to flow down my throat, and my head clears. The energy tries to push my mouth open. Focus reasserts itself between my eyes. Sensations seem a bit more faded today than before.

Now there's a blackness of the sensation. Energy then pushes up in my head, makes my eyes want to roll up. Then comes a tinge of luminosity.

Next there is a rather strong energy point focused right behind the bridge of my nose in between my eyes. This hangs around for a bit and then diffuses into blackness which forms a sort of stiff triangle from my jaws up to my crown. Then the blackness melts down, and my head feels clear above my eyes and sort of rigid and black below. This clears and focus is on the bridge of the nose again. Things refocus again on the bridge, but my eyes feel freed up from the focus this time.

Now the point moves up to my forehead.
I note myself trying to shape the upcoming feelings to something other than a pressure on the forehead. Some minor sitting pain.

Focus point at the bridge of nose again then at the cheeks. Throughout the whole of the sit, in almost every state, some energy rolls around my jaws and cheeks and tries to push my mouth open. I try to sit up straighter and see what happens. It seemed like the energy then left down my throat followed by a sort of wind that pushed back up through the throat.

(continued)

A bit later, there is some energy that seems to push up through the middle of my mind toward the crown, and it seems to sort of flower as it reaches the crown. Then there is a broad pressure flat across my face at about eye level, but above that my head feels clear and free.

Then the head clears completely.
Then there is a mental energy point at the roof of my mouth that vibrates and sort of massages my mind.
My head remains clear and a ball of energy seems to form and grow inside my mouth.

Actually, I misspoke earlier -- this was the point when I tried sitting up, and I felt the wind coming back up the throat. And then it seemed that my head got clear and largely remained so for the rest of the meditation.

I sat for about 45 minutes, perhaps an hour, and I used noting throughout, pausing to write notes.

Thanks again for the tips and notes!

Nice to have you here on the forum, Dreamrabbit. Thanks for being such a good sport. Your latest report is excellent and just the kind of thing to help the rest of us get a feel for your practice and offer help with it.

And thanks to Nick and Clayton for the valuable feedback and tips.

Kenneth

Hey Rabbit... excellent report. Keep em coming and we'll try to help out as we can.

Woke in middle of the night in some pleasant state. Decided to run with it for a while. Things seem even calmer now than before, shifts in consciousness a little subtler. No energy waves sloshing back and forth in head or jaw or between the two.

I work on noting, disassociating myself. Remarkable clearness throughout each transition. I eventually get to a point I got to yesterday morning. I get the feeling that I am abiding peace, and I start to sense quite directly that there is a spot at the back of my head, in the back middle, where the skull starts to curve back inwards, that seems to be responsible for creating the 'me' that runs around every day. And I sit there, knowing clearly that in reality, I encompass that, that it, in fact, is NOT me but something that creates the illusory me. I think of it somewhat like a projector that sits there at the back of my mind and projects 'me' onto the rest of my brain.

I sit there for a while, just knowing this, and feeling the energy that this spot puts out. It vibrates steadily, but it kind of burns a little bit. It feels like some alien creature latched on to the back of my head. It knows it's been found out, so it's clinging tighter. But beyond its activity, I am calm, still.

I should mention that I got to the same realization yesterday by trying to sit in 3rd gear for a while. Instead of trying to push through different states of mind I noticed this spot directly as seeming to stand between myself and pure, calm awareness, and I disassociated from the sensation in the back of my head, and it shrank down out of the way. With it gone, things felt a little clearer. I seemed a little closer to my senses.

Looking back on it today, I keep thinking of this spot as a beehive. I feel like there might be honey in there if I can get to it, but it seems to want to 'sting' back. I'll leave it alone for now and see if I keep running into it.

Throughout the day today, in times of relaxation and focus, I'll note changing sensations, pressures, moments of clarity. Some anxiety noted; tried to give it full attention as a bodily sensation. Seemed successful.

It seems that the energy that I noted yesterday in my mouth and jaws started in my head several days ago and has continued to move south, into the throat. Doesn't seem as active there.

-John

Nice descriptions, John! Now we can start to see some patterns emerge! Keep going!



Metta,

Nick

Thanks again to Kenneth, Clayton, and Nick for the encouragement. Writing these notes and getting a little perspective has helped me settle down and not worry about where I am. I'm wherever I am.

Last session is somewhat hard to put into words. I realized that whenever I focused on awareness, I kept trying to locate some physical place where the awareness was. I tried to give up on the idea of locating awareness, as I realized that I was aware 'wherever' I sensed. So instead of trying to be aware of my awareness or note, I just surrendered to being what I was sensing.

Meditation seemed different after that. Things were a lot more vibratory this time. More massaging feelings. And it felt more substantial.

Whereas before, the senses/pressures in my mind felt like almost random warpings of the mind. This time it felt like 'God' was sort of rooting around in several spots with a couple of fingers. At times it seemed like I could dis-embed from these warpings and observe from a more outside perspective, but they would sometimes suck me back in quite abruptly, putting all of my focus to various parts of my head.

I had two new states or sensations. One was a sort of warm, foggy, 'blackness' that strobed back and forth in the mind. This gave way to a luminosity spread over most of my head that had a familiar pressure to it, but it had a sort of icy tingle to it. Not unpleasant but not entirely blissful.

-John

I used to think people who believed in Kundalini and chakras were delusional New Agers. I am now humbly chastened.

I have come to the conclusion that much of what I have been reporting over the past few days has been Kundalini energy blocked up in my head. After noticing that the pressures were getting worse and worse, I searched around to see if anyone else had had similar problems, and I found out about Kundalini Syndrome. Described me perfectly. Found a very good video on youtube about it: and I feel much better after working with some of the areas around my skull and neck. I'll spend the next several days trying to loosen up more of my energy pathways.

The head pressure was reaching almost debilitating levels before I started treating it as a symptom instead of a sort of attainment. Since deciding to treat it like Kundalini, I have worked on surrendering to the energy instead of pushing away from uncomfortable sensations. It also feels like I have opened a path from the top of my head down to my heart. Once the energy gets to my torso, it generally disperses enough to not be a problem.

For the moment, I have stopped vipassana, though I have been pretty watchful and aware of my feelings and thoughts in day to day life. Anxiety is almost fun when it becomes a challenge to really experience the bodily sensations that engender it. And knowing I can take that attitude towards anxiety has helped put me at ease with facing the dark night.

In the past two days, my head pressure has lessened considerably. It seems that it has largely moved from the head down below my throat. However, I generally can't meditate for more than 15 minutes, as concentration seems to strengthen the energy quite a bit. I will continue to meditate as I can, using my ability to practice samatha as a barometer for my recovery.

"" Anxiety is almost fun when it becomes a challenge to really experience the bodily sensations that engender it. And knowing I can take that attitude towards anxiety has helped put me at ease with facing the dark night. "

In the past two days, my head pressure has lessened considerably. It seems that it has largely moved from the head down below my throat. However, I generally can't meditate for more than 15 minutes, as concentration seems to strengthen the energy quite a bit. I will continue to meditate as I can, using my ability to practice samatha as a barometer for my recovery."

Fantastic attitude that surely will support further progress. Keep up the posts!

Thanks, jgroove.

So the head pressure in my crown is pretty constant throughout the day -- always noticeable, slightly annoying, but generally not too bad. Had trouble taming it last night as I was trying to get to sleep, though.

So far, I have best managed it by treating it according to Hindic methods for treating Kundalini, i.e. consciously opening chakras and keeping an equanimous mind. I would prefer to get to a place where I don't have to 'manually' open up blockages as I find them but can instead simply allow it to be.

Being outside, feeling the shifting winds on my face and the openness of space seem to really help. At times, I am able to temporarily drain the energy from the top of my head, and it seems to either go down to my temples or sometimes down my throat.

Samatha has been minimal, several times throughout the day, and it is a struggle between relaxing with a light focus on the breath and dealing with the energies that instantly grow and move when I start to direct my attention pointedly. In this case, I am not sure whether it would be better to press on with concentrating on the breath or to wait and continue to build up a tolerance for this energy. For now, I am playing it safe -- stirring up a little bit of energy and making a path for it.

I should say I had one samatha session that went pretty well, and I felt two brief strobes of rapture which promptly distracted me.

I also still maintain that it feels like something has changed permanently in the way my brain deals with certain phenomena. Things that would normally have bothered me for a long time like guilt, shame, or anxiety seem to fall away much easier now, so I am calmer, more present, and less driven by compulsive tendencies.

Figured out how to relax tension in my body by 'breathing' in the spots where I am tense. Worked wonders. My body is more relaxed and flexible than it has been in a long time. I think it has also helped the head pressures, as they have been much milder

Sat for 20 minutes today, concentrating on the breath. After 10 minutes or so, it felt like a light, cool breeze was blowing on my face. The cool sensation migrated up to my crown after a bit. Started to get uncomfortable, so I switched to a lying-down meditation. Got too comfortable and started drifting off.

Focus felt kinda weak throughout, only managing to keep on about two breaths at a time, but I never strayed too far.

Have had a couple of ~20 minute sits where I experienced the cool breeze sensation again.

I am not sure if I am practicing samatha or not. Any sit now invariably turns into me trying to manage the energy phenomena instead of concentrating on the breath. I can focus for long periods of time on these sensations with ease, but I imagine they are too discursive to really let my mind settle. The sensations are not painful, but it is hard to focus on the breath when it feels like something is squeezing your adam's apple. I am trying alternately to open myself up to the experience and to open a pathway for the energy to move down lower.

"I am not sure if I am practicing samatha or not. Any sit now invariably turns into me trying to manage the energy phenomena instead of concentrating on the breath." -Dreamrabbit

What is your objective at this point, John? If your goal is developmental enlightenment, I would recommend dropping the breath-following as well as any attempt at "managing the energy phenomena." Instead, try noting aloud at the 4 foundations of mindfulness, one note per second, for the entire duration of your formal practice session, whether sitting or walking. This is the technique that I believe gives yogis the most consistent progress. Look on the home page here for noting tips. Also, check out the series of transcripts of the interviews between me and jgroove; they are all posted at buddhistgeeks.com. Just search for my name there.

Your practice looks good but a little unfocused. See if you can identify clear goals and then decide what you think is the best way to accomplish them. Once you have done that, follow through with your chosen practice until you see the results you are after. You can do this.

-Kenneth

edit: typo

Thanks for the reply.

I started out doing vipassana noting practice, and I got a little freaked out by the growing intensity of the pressure in my head. I have decided to back off a little from the practices that brought that on until it calms down a little more. In the meantime, I thought I would try to practice keeping a light focus on my breath, building up concentration and seeing if I could quiet these energies or if they would subside on their own.

My goal is to get enlightened, and I know that noting practice is the ticket, but I'm a bit afraid of pushing myself too far too fast. I'm not entirely convinced that the energies I've been experiencing are normal level. I'll get there in time.

" I'm not entirely convinced that the energies I've been experiencing are normal level. "

Just a quick note: If you're experiencing intense pain with the head pressure, then yes I'd back off and maybe see a doctor. But if it's just pressure, try relaxing into it. Really feel it with your whole body (and try putting your awareness on a global, whole-body level...makes the pressure less scary).

In terms of my own experience, the head pressure has been incredibly intense (like someone was taking a nutcracker to my pituitary gland or something [or, conversely, was inflating a hot-air balloon inside my head]).

Just my opinion based on my own experience thus far (FYI I'm pre-path and have been practicing "pragmatically" and quite intensely, at times at least, for about 6 months...but, browsing the forums here and at DhO, head pressure - as long as it's not painful - is a regular experience for many meditators across traditions).

Anyway, best of luck and go for it!

As Chris says, pressure in the head is definitely normal in the context of meditation. It is also good. You shouldn't have any other neurological signs--like feinting, headaches, loss of motor control, or problems with eye sight. If you do, check with a doctor for sure.

If it is just kundalini stuff, there is nothing wrong with stepping back if it feels too intense. Or, you can try shorter sits and see if it slowly lessens a bit. Eating a bit more heavily, exercise, and a little extra sexual activity (just saying) can also take things down a notch.

If you want to push through it a bit, see if you can notice if you are resisting it. Sometimes with kundalini, it is possibly to mentally resist it--woah! too much pressure!--and it makes it more intense. Noting resistance to the pressure is good. So is just checking in with yourself. Surrender to the pressure--let it have you--this can be helpful.

Other than just using common sense, you know you'll need to back off when you feel "fried." It's sort of a feeling that your brain has been going through a workout, like a muscle, and just won't fire anymore. You need to break at those times--you'll feel an aversion to your cushion or to concentrating. This is something you'll learn over time and is important to pay attention to.

Yours,
Mark

Guys, thanks for the encouragement and reassurances. I sat and did noting practice yesterday, and things went...better than expected. As long as I focused on keeping about 80% awareness in the body, I didn't have any problems at all. The session was, all in all, rather boring. Which is good for now.